Was the Holocaust... a lie?
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10-03-2012, 06:14 PM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
I'm very confused... Except for, there are people silenced to speak out against the movement and attempts to negate little details in the story which don't matter to the whole of the holocaust happening, what evidence is there there wasn't a slaughter of millions of people?

It's odd to see someone here looking at evidential claims and scoffing them off as not being legitimate for explaining what supposedly happened.. And then saying, where is the proof. It reminds me an awful lot of something.
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10-03-2012, 06:55 PM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(10-03-2012 04:15 PM)Sol Wrote:  I did......I pointed out inconsistencies with one of the vids he showed (as an example).
The facts of which are freely available and, should he look, easily found...
Having done many years research.... he said. He then asked me to point him in the right direction for this information - do you see the problem with that ?

Do you see how that usually goes.....?

As for the other topics, unfortunately I have not read them all However I would still contend that the jewish genocide of WW2 is not within the purview of the thread title.

Is there a thread or post about the possible doubt of gravity, the earth being spheroidal or misinformation about tides, the existence of dogs or the doubt that human sphincters always point down ????

It's not that it is controversial, its the fact that it is a gross distortion of the known facts.

You said that David Cole recanted his holocaust views, yes... yes he did... but why? I am angry with you. Sol. Sun. I am very angry with you, yes! yes! He DID MAKE A RECANTATION!

Did you go farther than that? He was threatened, his life, and the lives of the ones he loved, threatened, he was stalked. So this RECANTATION is of LITTLE use. Such a CONFESSION is considered to be UNTRUE.

You knew it... that's why you didn't share your information or your sources. You knew that he had been threatened to make such a recantation.

So I will happily share some sources with you and others here.

David's Recant

David Cole's Works

The Reason Behind His Recant

Richard Dawkins gets so many death threats just for being an atheist, what amount do you think those who deny the holocaust get?

Sol, don't ever talk to me about your views again. You knew, you knew... and yet you lied. Can anyone see from this example how easy you can get someone to confess to something they don't really believe in? And how EASY you can MISINFORM OTHERS. SOL. Quite unworthy of that latin name, you are now sun. From this day forward I will forever call you sun.
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10-03-2012, 07:27 PM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
I see what the point is and completely disagree with what he defines as what people call the Holocaust. The only bit there could be of a controversy is the debate of what orders actually were from above and questioning the gas chambers existence. That's about all it is and it actually manipulates other travesties around the world as if they are nothing.

"the Holocaust, which is defined as planned and organized mass murder, carried out specifically in homicidal gas chambers"


The Holocaust includes all of the details he tries to shove off as saying he isn't debunking. It's the culmination of the persecution and gathering of the Jews/others into the concentration camps and killing them in whatever way it happened to be done. It's just redefining the definition to what is wanted.

"In the mind of the public the opinion is often created that simply depriving Jews of civil rights during the Third Reich was part of the Holocaust. But if this were true, then depriving blacks in South Africa until the end of last century, Palestinians in Israel and the territories occupied by it, or the (partial) deprivation of civil right of Blacks and Native Americans in the USA until the middle of the 20th century would also have to be described as part of a Holocaust."

Those ARE part of a holocaust. There is great detail on information how the movement of putting Israel in place went alongside a genocide of Palestinians; Also, The movement of assimilation was trying to destroy the way of life that existed among the Native American tribes to wipe out their heritage. The situation with the Blacks may be a bit different since they were slaves being freed to an extent. They were never put into new restriction brackets but not opened to full citizenship off the bat sadly.
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10-03-2012, 07:38 PM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(10-03-2012 01:38 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  Seriously, what is wrong with you people!

I don't agree with TheArcticSage on this but no-one is properly engaging him, people are just dismissing and ridiculing him.

Everything he's said so far just sounds like copy and paste jobs from Aryan Brotherhood websites. There's nothing to "engage" with.

(10-03-2012 01:38 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  I actually admire him for having the balls to bring up such a contentious issue and to be honest all credit to the guy. He's trying to debate based on what he considers evidence, that's the sort of thing we should be encouraging.

Nope. He's debating with Aryan Brotherhood-type talking points, which reached its nadir when he seriously suggested that the Allies were to blame for the deaths of "many Jews." I have not seen a single criticism of the Nazis in any of his messages so far.

(10-03-2012 01:38 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  Sorry if anyone feels I'm being overly critical but things like this are why I have so little faith in humanity.

Me too, for opposite reasons. We have massive evidences for the Holocaust. Suggesting that it somehow didn't happen, or that the nice cuddly Nazis were just innocent little babies who have been unfairly singled out through the sinister machinations of "The Jews" and their minions in the West, is merely a continuation of the Holocaust by other means. It's psychological warfare of the most dehumanizing kind, and an utter debasement to the study of history.
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10-03-2012, 07:42 PM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
Pfff, next thing you know this guy will tell us Lady Gaga isn't real either. Dodgy

"All that is necessary for the triumph of Calvinism is that good Atheists do nothing." ~Eric Oh My
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10-03-2012, 08:58 PM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(10-03-2012 07:38 PM)Blood Wrote:  Everything he's said so far just sounds like copy and paste jobs from Aryan Brotherhood websites. There's nothing to "engage" with.

Nope. He's debating with Aryan Brotherhood-type talking points, which reached its nadir when he seriously suggested that the Allies were to blame for the deaths of "many Jews." I have not seen a single criticism of the Nazis in any of his messages so far.

Me too, for opposite reasons. We have massive evidences for the Holocaust. Suggesting that it somehow didn't happen, or that the nice cuddly Nazis were just innocent little babies who have been unfairly singled out through the sinister machinations of "The Jews" and their minions in the West, is merely a continuation of the Holocaust by other means. It's psychological warfare of the most dehumanizing kind, and an utter debasement to the study of history.

Where do you think the Aryan Brotherhood gets it's information from? They just make it up? Or do you think they promote what historians have revised to make their gang look more inviting? Rather than assuming I got this information from a relatively racist gang which operates both inside and outside of prisons... could it be that both would have a familiar source from which they derived their information from?

Bombing supply lines to cities and such tends to have the consequences of leaving them with a shortage of food, water, medicine, and other commodities. This is not including the fact that entire cities were bombed extensively by allied air raids. Did the Nazi's bomb cities? Yes they did, but if we're judging by who created the more civilian casualties...

cute cuddly nazi's
[Image: 5ae9c12212eb938516706b7ff284f6c7.jpg]
To make judgments based on the actions of a few...

So because it's in a history book means it shouldn't be questioned? The bible and the quran and the torah are all partially historical as well as being 'sacred' texts... so by that logic I shouldn't question them either?

(10-03-2012 07:42 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  Pfff, next thing you know this guy will tell us Lady Gaga isn't real either. Dodgy

I only wish.
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10-03-2012, 09:47 PM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
Blood, Peterkin, Sol,

We have masses of evidence that the moon landings happened. Mountains of it. Yet I've never seen anyone react like this to a moon landing sceptic. The only reason I can conclude is that it is the sensitivity of the subject that makes everyone so hostile.

The flat Earth society don't get vilified like this and their claims are even more demonstrably false. Again, I can only conclude that it is the sensitivity of the subject that makes everyone so hostile.

Blood Wrote:Everything he's said so far just sounds like copy and paste jobs from Aryan Brotherhood websites. There's nothing to "engage" with.

Actually he's made several points about possibilities of malnutrition and disease killing people, not gas.

Engaging him would be to present evidence that gas was used.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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10-03-2012, 09:56 PM (This post was last modified: 10-03-2012 10:01 PM by Peterkin.)
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
But then again, why should anyone give a sff about 'engaging' him?

Quote:We have masses of evidence that the moon landings happened. Mountains of it. Yet I've never seen anyone react like this to a moon landing sceptic. The only reason I can conclude is that it is the sensitivity of the subject that makes everyone so hostile.
... well that, and the fact that neither moon landing doubt nor flat earth assertion does anybody any harm, nor denies any victim the legitimacy of their grievance or acknowledgment of their suffering, nor tries to absolve perpetrators of a huge crime against humanity.

It's not the mean god I have trouble with - it's the people who worship a mean god.
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10-03-2012, 10:05 PM (This post was last modified: 10-03-2012 10:15 PM by TheArcticSage.)
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(10-03-2012 09:47 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  Blood, Peterkin, Sol,

We have masses of evidence that the moon landings happened. Mountains of it. Yet I've never seen anyone react like this to a moon landing sceptic. The only reason I can conclude is that it is the sensitivity of the subject that makes everyone so hostile.

The flat Earth society don't get vilified like this and their claims are even more demonstrably false. Again, I can only conclude that it is the sensitivity of the subject that makes everyone so hostile.

Actually he's made several points about possibilities of malnutrition and disease killing people, not gas.

Engaging him would be to present evidence that gas was used.

My type of evidence, not dead jews, not photos, not eye-witness testimonies, not survivor accounts, not confessions.... my type of evidence is something else. Physical and forensic evidence. Such is a case in a murder trial.

Physical Evidence like this

Until you give me evidence which can contradict the above with the same kind of physical evidence I am simply declined to disagree with the holocaust ever happening. being that the holocaust is a plan to mass murder the Jews via gas.

When the above, which would provide physical evidence if one cared enough to investigate it for themselves contradicts all the eye-witness accounts, survivor accounts, and confessions because it's physical evidence. (doesn't really contradict any photos or dead jews laying around the camps.

This is what I would expect from a middle class murder trial, they go in, okay? look for forensics and physical evidence which would prove whether or not the suspect was innocent or guilty.

Seriously... it's not asking much... I want this kind of evidence. Not to mention that these tests should have been conducted by the prosecution and not the defense.

(10-03-2012 09:56 PM)Peterkin Wrote:  ... well that, and the fact that neither moon landing doubt nor flat earth assertion does anybody any harm, nor denies any victim the legitimacy of their grievance or acknowledgment of their suffering, nor tries to absolve perpetrators of a huge crime against humanity.

See now that's where you're doing something wrong, you're already assuming that there are are victims, grievers, and suffers of a huge crime against humanity. Without any physical evidence to back up the claim besides testimonies.

The link I've provided with this post provides physical evidence. That's the kind of evidence I want, you're saying they used gas chambers, they testing the gas chambers for residue of cyanide should undoubtedly adhere to your side right? There's a reason why I just brushed off the amonia or what ever it was removing traces of Zyklon B... that's because of what the above article mentions and even a scientific article about the effects of long term use of zyklon B SATURATING the walls through and through, you can't 'rub' it out.

The second thing you're doing is you're putting one ethnic group above all the other ethnic groups giving them more status... what's that called?
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10-03-2012, 10:09 PM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(10-03-2012 09:56 PM)Peterkin Wrote:  But then again, why should anyone give a sff about 'engaging' him?

Well I was always under the impression that that was a courtesy we extended to anyone. I like to think of this place as somewhere where if someone turns up and tries to argue from an evidence based perspective we engage them and debate, however eccentric the claim. I don't like to think of this place as somewhere where we dismiss/ridicule anyone who dares say something that goes against the social norm.

Maybe I'm giving us all too much credit.

Peterkin Wrote:... well that, and the fact that neither moon landing doubt nor flat earth assertion does anybody any harm, nor denies any victim the legitimacy of their grievance or acknowledgment of their suffering, nor tries to absolve perpetrators of a huge crime against humanity.

So you are accepting that you think we should equate how horrific a crime is with how readily we believe it? To protect people's feelings. That is something I cannot accept. All claims should be subject to scrutiny, regardless of how controversial they may be.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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