Water to Wine was a well-known trick jug
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14-04-2013, 08:04 AM
RE: Water to Wine was a well-known trick jug
(14-04-2013 02:34 AM)ralphellis Wrote:  As is usual, what I say is true. People may not agree with the interpretation I have placed on it, but what I say is true.

You are a seriously delusional egotist.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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14-04-2013, 12:16 PM (This post was last modified: 14-04-2013 01:37 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Water to Wine was a well-known trick jug
Whatever the truth about this is, to me it says one important thing. If Jebus actually was the early version, even after that, it says that the sub-group of Jews who were waiting for a meessiah, were STILL waiting, if the other later figures could mount campaigns and gain followers. It means Jebus was not seen as the person they were waiting for. It means he was not seen as having done the job which was expected of that person. If Simon bar Kochba was able to assemble his forces later, it proves that nothing was seen as having been convincingly done by Jebus. Now certainly if hundreds of dead people rose from their graves, the temple curtain torn, etc, (as in Matthew), it would have made an impression. Yet no one talks about it. Something's rotten in Denmark.

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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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15-04-2013, 02:23 AM
RE: Water to Wine was a well-known trick jug
(14-04-2013 12:16 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  It means he was not seen as having done the job which was expected of that person.


Yes, we know that.

Jesus WAS the so-called Messiah (the King) for the Christians, but he was not for the Jews. That is the major split between Judaism and Simple Judaism (Christianity).

But you also have to bear in mind that Simple Judaism was not the religion of Jesus. Jesus was a Fourth Sect Nazarene, and his sect was defeated by Saul-Josephus' Simple Judaism. Thus Christians are following the creed of Jesus' greatest enemy.

It is a bit like true Brits reading a biography of Winston Churchill that was written by Adolf Hitler. Yes, their error is that great !!

.
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15-04-2013, 11:38 AM
RE: Water to Wine was a well-known trick jug
Quote:Whatever the truth about this is, to me it says one important thing. If Jebus actually was the early version, even after that, it says that the sub-group of Jews who were waiting for a meessiah, were STILL waiting, if the other later figures could mount campaigns and gain followers. It means Jebus was not seen as the person they were waiting for. It means he was not seen as having done the job which was expected of that person. If Simon bar Kochba was able to assemble his forces later, it proves that nothing was seen as having been convincingly done by Jebus. Now certainly if hundreds of dead people rose from their graves, the temple curtain torn, etc, (as in Matthew), it would have made an impression. Yet no one talks about it. Something's rotten in Denmark.
I've addressed this elsewhere:

Matthew 24:5 - For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many.

People are STILL claiming Messiahship and claiming to be avatars/amaneunses etc. for Jesus Christ. Prophecy... wait for it... fulfilled.
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15-04-2013, 09:30 PM (This post was last modified: 16-04-2013 05:55 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Water to Wine was a well-known trick jug
(15-04-2013 11:38 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  I've addressed this elsewhere:

Matthew 24:5 - For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many.

People are STILL claiming Messiahship and claiming to be avatars/amaneunses etc. for Jesus Christ. Prophecy... wait for it... fulfilled.



So what.
Anyone could have said that, AFTER the fact. You also have no clue what "prophesy" is or was.

Jebus DID NOT GET THE ONE JOB DONE that he was supposed to get done, so all the rest is irrelevant.

You also have to prove the Jebus actually said that. You can't. The writer placed the words in his mouth as a literary device, to MAKE IT APPEAR that a "prophecy", or pesher had been found.

You really need an education in scripture.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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15-04-2013, 11:22 PM
RE: Water to Wine was a well-known trick jug
(15-04-2013 11:38 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:Whatever the truth about this is, to me it says one important thing. If Jebus actually was the early version, even after that, it says that the sub-group of Jews who were waiting for a meessiah, were STILL waiting, if the other later figures could mount campaigns and gain followers. It means Jebus was not seen as the person they were waiting for. It means he was not seen as having done the job which was expected of that person. If Simon bar Kochba was able to assemble his forces later, it proves that nothing was seen as having been convincingly done by Jebus. Now certainly if hundreds of dead people rose from their graves, the temple curtain torn, etc, (as in Matthew), it would have made an impression. Yet no one talks about it. Something's rotten in Denmark.
I've addressed this elsewhere:

Matthew 24:5 - For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many.


People are STILL claiming Messiahship and claiming to be avatars/amaneunses etc. for Jesus Christ. Prophecy... wait for it... fulfilled.

PJ. please, for your own sake, go read some history. Then come back when you know something, or your interest has been stimulated. Otherwise you'll always only ever be a whipping boy.
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15-04-2013, 11:27 PM
RE: Water to Wine was a well-known trick jug
(15-04-2013 02:23 AM)ralphellis Wrote:  
(14-04-2013 12:16 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  It means he was not seen as having done the job which was expected of that person.


Yes, we know that.

Jesus WAS the so-called Messiah (the King) for the Christians, but he was not for the Jews. That is the major split between Judaism and Simple Judaism (Christianity).

But you also have to bear in mind that Simple Judaism was not the religion of Jesus. Jesus was a Fourth Sect Nazarene, and his sect was defeated by Saul-Josephus' Simple Judaism. Thus Christians are following the creed of Jesus' greatest enemy.

It is a bit like true Brits reading a biography of Winston Churchill that was written by Adolf Hitler. Yes, their error is that great !!

.

Hey Ralph, I agree with you here. (although as far as I'm aware "Simple Judaism" isn't recognised terminology, so people are bound to not know what you mean.)

Please fill us in about "fourth sect"
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16-04-2013, 09:24 AM
RE: Water to Wine was a well-known trick jug
Quote:So what.
Anyone could have said that, AFTER the fact. You also have no clue what "prophesy" is or was.

Jebus DID NOT GET THE ONE JOB DONE that he was supposed to get done, so all the rest is irrelevant.

You also have to prove the Jebus actually said that. You can't. The writer placed the words in his mouth as a literary device, to MAKE IT APPEAR that a "prophecy", or pesher had been found.

You really need an education in scripture.

Hi, BB, you slipped up again in logic.

You claim (without empirical evidence) that there were insertions in the text to demonstrate that Jesus was a mighty prophet by showing he "told the future".

Then you ALSO say here and elsewhere that prophets didn't tell the future!

Why don't you PICK one of those arguments; 1) (prophets weren't supposed to foretell events and the untold millions of secular and religious scholars who say they attempted to were all wrong) OR 2) writers inserted fulfilled prophecies (destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem, church persecutions, reign of Alexander, Messiah will die and rise again) to make their "boys" look more sophisticated.

PICK ONE.
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17-04-2013, 10:56 AM
RE: Water to Wine was a well-known trick jug
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(15-04-2013 11:38 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  People are STILL claiming Messiahship and claiming to be avatars/amaneunses etc. for Jesus Christ. Prophecy... wait for it... fulfilled.

You forget what Pesher Prophesy was used for. Yes it was used for prophesy, but it was also used to cover up the identities of people, so the carping rabbis would not get their necks stretched by their Christian adversaries.

When the Talmud calls Jesus 'Balaam' is is not just because the life of the latter was similar to the life of the former, it was also so that they could say that Jesus should be boiled in semen and sh!t without too many riots breaking out. I will post the Talmud references to this later.

Its Gittin 55 - 57.

.
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17-04-2013, 01:38 PM
RE: Water to Wine was a well-known trick jug
Quote:You forget what Pesher Prophesy was used for. Yes it was used for prophesy, but it was also used to cover up the identities of people, so the carping rabbis would not get their necks stretched by their Christian adversaries.

When the Talmud calls Jesus 'Balaam' is is not just because the life of the latter was similar to the life of the former, it was also so that they could say that Jesus should be boiled in semen and sh!t without too many riots breaking out. I will post the Talmud references to this later.

Its Gittin 55 - 57.

.
I haven't forgotten, and I'm conversant with the Talmud references, hallmarks that 1) Jesus existed 2) His cult existed 3) some Jews were opposed


Thank God, you at least admit there were future PROPHECIES. BB is living in a dream world (Matrix?).
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