Water to Wine was a well-known trick jug
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08-01-2014, 12:12 PM
RE: Water to Wine was a well-known trick jug
(04-01-2014 08:28 PM)maklelan Wrote:  Old English derives from Proto-Germanic and predates the introduction of Latin through the Norman conquest. The grammatical and syntactical heritage comes from German, not Latin.


Eh? Eh?

McClellan my old son, we spoke Latin in 'England' long before the Norman invasions. Do you know anything about history? England was taken over by the Romans in AD 43, spoke Latin as the primary language of the nation until the fall of the Western Roman Empire some 400 years later:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_conquest_of_Britain

In England, Latin predates Germanic languages. The primary foundation of the language was Latin, and the Germanic influences built upon that.

And why does grammar trump vocabulary? What I want to convey in my speech is all in the vocabulary, while the grammar is merely window-dressing. Sorry, McClellan, if you were my tutor I would be asking for a refund.


Ralph
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08-01-2014, 01:21 PM
RE: Water to Wine was a well-known trick jug
(08-01-2014 12:12 PM)ralphellis Wrote:  
(04-01-2014 08:28 PM)maklelan Wrote:  Old English derives from Proto-Germanic and predates the introduction of Latin through the Norman conquest. The grammatical and syntactical heritage comes from German, not Latin.


Eh? Eh?

McClellan my old son, we spoke Latin in 'England' long before the Norman invasions. Do you know anything about history? England was taken over by the Romans in AD 43, spoke Latin as the primary language of the nation until the fall of the Western Roman Empire some 400 years later:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_conquest_of_Britain

In England, Latin predates Germanic languages. The primary foundation of the language was Latin, and the Germanic influences built upon that.

And why does grammar trump vocabulary? What I want to convey in my speech is all in the vocabulary, while the grammar is merely window-dressing. Sorry, McClellan, if you were my tutor I would be asking for a refund.


Ralph

In Roman Britain, Latin was spoken by a small minority, largely the elite. The masses spoke Brittonic. The diagram Chippy provided is quite accurate.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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08-01-2014, 01:46 PM
RE: Water to Wine was a well-known trick jug
(08-01-2014 12:12 PM)ralphellis Wrote:  
(04-01-2014 08:28 PM)maklelan Wrote:  Old English derives from Proto-Germanic and predates the introduction of Latin through the Norman conquest. The grammatical and syntactical heritage comes from German, not Latin.


Eh? Eh?

McClellan my old son, we spoke Latin in 'England' long before the Norman invasions. Do you know anything about history? England was taken over by the Romans in AD 43, spoke Latin as the primary language of the nation until the fall of the Western Roman Empire some 400 years later:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_conquest_of_Britain

In England, Latin predates Germanic languages. The primary foundation of the language was Latin, and the Germanic influences built upon that.

And why does grammar trump vocabulary? What I want to convey in my speech is all in the vocabulary, while the grammar is merely window-dressing. Sorry, McClellan, if you were my tutor I would be asking for a refund.


Ralph

Since you like to use wikipedia for your references, how about the wikipedia article on the genesis of the English language ?

Quote:Historically, English originated from the fusion of closely related dialects, now collectively termed Old English, which were brought to the eastern coast of Great Britain by Germanic settlers (Anglo-Saxons) by the 5th century; the word English is derived from the name of the Angles,[13] and ultimately from their ancestral region of Angeln (in what is now Schleswig-Holstein). The language was also influenced early on by the Old Norse language through Viking invasions in the 9th and 10th centuries.

The Norman conquest of England in the 11th century gave rise to heavy borrowings from Norman French, and vocabulary and spelling conventions began to give the appearance of a close relationship with those of Latin-derived Romance languages (though English is not a Romance language itself)[14][15] to what had then become Middle English. The Great Vowel Shift that began in the south of England in the 15th century is one of the historical events that mark the emergence of Modern English from Middle English.

So you, oh great scholar, can't even use wikipedia. FFS. Jesus was the King of Edessa too, no doubt that claim rests on the same standard of "scholarship".

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08-01-2014, 02:16 PM (This post was last modified: 09-01-2014 07:11 AM by Chas.)
RE: Water to Wine was a well-known trick jug
(06-05-2013 01:50 PM)ralphellis Wrote:  .
(06-05-2013 10:10 AM)Chas Wrote:  You are an arrogant buffoon. You make shit up. Drinking Beverage


Is that an argument, a rebuttal, or a capitulation?

Oh, and which bits, exactly, were fabricated?


.

Pretty much everything you say.
You see connections where there simply aren't any, you think word similarities always mean something, you see similarities by cherry-picking, you ignore actual evidence.

You are a buffoon.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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08-01-2014, 11:56 PM (This post was last modified: 09-01-2014 12:07 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Water to Wine was a well-known trick jug
(08-01-2014 02:16 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(06-05-2013 01:50 PM)ralphellis Wrote:  .


Is that an argument, a rebuttal, or a capitulation?

Oh, and which bits, exactly, were fabricated?


.

Pretty much everything you say. You see connections where there simply aren't any, you think word similarities always mean something, you see similarities by cherry-picking, you ignore actual evidence.

You are a buffoon.



Agreed, I am also not impressed.


Aaron Adair - Jesus was King Arthur, and a Pharaoh, and King of Edessa–The “Scholarship” of Ralph Ellis

Tom Verenna - A New Theory That Jesus Was King of Edessa? Not So Fast, Mr. Ellis!

Tom Verenna - Ralph Ellis, Jesus, and his Myth of the King Jesus of Edessa

Tom Verenna - More Ralph Ellis Conspiracy Nonsense: The Final Debunking

Steve Caruso - King Jesus of Edessa by Ralph Ellis -- Er.. What?

Finally, and most damning...

Tom Veranna - I’m Being Harassed and Threatened by Ralph Ellis


Why do the cranks just assume, that because we're self described atheists, we'll buy into anything that seemingly discredits a literal interpretation of the Bible? Huh

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09-01-2014, 08:53 AM
RE: Water to Wine was a well-known trick jug
(08-01-2014 11:56 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Agreed, I am also not impressed.

Aaron Adair - Jesus was King Arthur, and a Pharaoh, and King of Edessa
Tom Verenna - A New Theory That Jesus Was King of Edessa? Not So Fast, Mr. Ellis!
Tom Verenna - Ralph Ellis, Jesus, and his Myth of the King Jesus of Edessa
Tom Verenna - More Ralph Ellis Conspiracy Nonsense: The Final Debunking
teve Caruso - King Jesus of Edessa by Ralph Ellis -- Er.. What?
Finally, and most damning...
Tom Veranna - I’m Being Harassed and Threatened by Ralph Ellis

Why do the cranks just assume, that because we're self described atheists, we'll buy into anything that seemingly discredits a literal interpretation of the Bible? Huh


Those reviews by Verenna were completely made up, bogus reviews. I don't mention any of the things Verenna was complaining about. And when I complained about his bogus review, he deleted my comments, hid behind censorship and blew raspberries from behind his web-fortress.

Verenna was asked twice to debate and justify his bogus reviews on the radio, but he refused, saying that he had to look after his mother. And when I asked his university for an email address, they said they had never heard of anyone called Verenna.

Tell me - what do you do with a so-called academic who acts as unprofessionally and as shamelessly as Verenna? He is probably a web-troll with no education whatsoever, but you will still believe him.

Ask Verenna on which page I conflate four kings of Edessa.
Ask Verenna on which page I mention King Abgar Ma’nu VI.
Ask Verenna on which page I mention Abgar bar Manu VIII.

He cannot do so, because I do not mention these kings once. As I said, the entire review was bogus made-up nonsense by a pseudo-academic. Ask Verenna to come on this blogsite, and justify his reviews and his claims.



And as to Caruso, he also lives behind censorship and name-calling.
His main bitch was that I did not use Hebrew fonts. But Kindle have said they cannot handle Hebrew fonts.
His second bitch was that there was no etymological link between the names I used. Yes, because this was all humor and obfuscation. Where are the etymological links between 'Jesus' and 'Balaam', the name for Jesus in the Talmud? None.
Oh, and Caruso also said I was wrong, because he had cast iron proof that Adiabene was Arbela. I'm still waiting Caruso - just where is your proof?



And then we have Joel Watts, another academic reviewer and critic and a member of this same clique of academics. This was Mr Watt's review:

[Image: w0gfg3.jpg]




And you take these people at their word?


Ralph
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09-01-2014, 09:03 AM
RE: Water to Wine was a well-known trick jug
(08-01-2014 01:21 PM)Chas Wrote:  In Roman Britain, Latin was spoken by a small minority, largely the elite. The masses spoke Brittonic. The diagram Chippy provided is quite accurate.


In the same fashion that only the Indian elite speak English... Thumbsup Yes, we believe you.

English has been in India for about the same length of time that Latin was in England. Are you saying that the English language has had no impact on India? Are you saying that if an Indian peasant wants to trade their goods or access governmental institutions, that they never have to string a few English words together?

Likewise French in England, which was only for the elite, and yet it left an almighty great stamp on the English language. I think you have a poor grasp of how language works.


And you negate to address the main point I was making, which is that McClellan did not know about the Roman-Latin invasion of AD 43.


Ralph
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09-01-2014, 10:01 AM
RE: Water to Wine was a well-known trick jug
You don't have a point, Ralph. You're just looking for an audience for your dog-and-pony show, but the fairgrounds are closed, here. Tongue

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09-01-2014, 11:43 AM (This post was last modified: 09-01-2014 10:45 PM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Water to Wine was a well-known trick jug
(09-01-2014 08:53 AM)ralphellis Wrote:  Those reviews by Verenna were completely made up, bogus reviews. I don't mention any of the things Verenna was complaining about. And when I complained about his bogus review, he deleted my comments, hid behind censorship and blew raspberries from behind his web-fortress.

Verenna was asked twice to debate and justify his bogus reviews on the radio, but he refused, saying that he had to look after his mother. And when I asked his university for an email address, they said they had never heard of anyone called Verenna.


It's on his website... Dodgy

thomas(dot)verenna(at)rutgers(dot)edu



(09-01-2014 08:53 AM)ralphellis Wrote:  Tell me - what do you do with a so-called academic who acts as unprofessionally and as shamelessly as Verenna? He is probably a web-troll with no education whatsoever, but you will still believe him.

Ask Verenna on which page I conflate four kings of Edessa.
Ask Verenna on which page I mention King Abgar Ma’nu VI.
Ask Verenna on which page I mention Abgar bar Manu VIII.

He cannot do so, because I do not mention these kings once. As I said, the entire review was bogus made-up nonsense by a pseudo-academic. Ask Verenna to come on this blogsite, and justify his reviews and his claims.


I'm actually beyond the point of taking anything you say seriously on account of the behavior I've seen from you documented across various blog's comments. You have poisoned your own well.

http://gilgamesh42.wordpress.com/2013/04...omment-889


http://danielomcclellan.wordpress.com/20...lph-ellis/



(09-01-2014 08:53 AM)ralphellis Wrote:  And as to Caruso, he also lives behind censorship and name-calling.
His main bitch was that I did not use Hebrew fonts. But Kindle have said they cannot handle Hebrew fonts.


BULLSHIT.

[Image: bible_kindle_gk.jpg]

[Image: Hebrew-font-browser-test-0.70-Silk-Kindl...ritics.jpg]

Those are not JPEGs, those are CSS fonts. Dodgy



(09-01-2014 08:53 AM)ralphellis Wrote:  His second bitch was that there was no etymological link between the names I used. Yes, because this was all humor and obfuscation. Where are the etymological links between 'Jesus' and 'Balaam', the name for Jesus in the Talmud? None.


You make that assertion with such confidence (Jesus is in the Talmud, and he is Balaam), but the whole of biblical scholarship is not nearly as convinced as you are...

Jesus in the Talmud at Wikipedia Wrote:The Talmud contains passages that some scholars have concluded are references to Christian traditions about Jesus. The history of textual transmission of these passages is complex and scholars are not agreed concerning which passages are original, and which were added later or removed later in reaction to the actions of Christians. Scholars are also divided on the relationship of the passages, if any, to the historical Jesus, though most modern scholarship views the passages as reaction to Christian proselytism rather than having any meaningful trace of a historical Jesus.

Drinking Beverage



(09-01-2014 08:53 AM)ralphellis Wrote:  Oh, and Caruso also said I was wrong, because he had cast iron proof that Adiabene was Arbela. I'm still waiting Caruso - just where is your proof?


I don't remember reading that, I do however think he presents himself far more compelling than you do.


Steve Caruso Wrote:And now on to some of my own observations I've picked out from perusing Ellis' work on Google Books:

-The claim that Adiabene means "Sons of Addai" (I assume ܐܕܝ ܒܢܝ /addai b'ney/) makes a fundamental mistake that anyone who studies Aramaic of any stripe would find rather embarrassing. A noun in the construct form must precede the noun it modifies (like in ܒܢܝ ܐܝܣܪܐܝܠ /b'ney israel/ = "Sons of Israel", or בני קרתא /b'ney qarta/ = "sons of the city" = "townsfolk"). Adiabene comes from ܚܕܝܐܒ‎ /hadiyav/. There is no similarity between ܚܕܝܐܒ‎ /hadiyav/ and ܒܢܝ ܐܕܝ /b'ney addai/.

-The progression of Judas into Addai is a horrible "Edenic two-step." Judas comes from יהודה /yehuda/, and יהודה and אדי could not perturb from one to the other as he proposes. One cannot simply ignore established etymology.




(09-01-2014 08:53 AM)ralphellis Wrote:  And then we have Joel Watts, another academic reviewer and critic and a member of this same clique of academics. This was Mr Watt's review:

[Image: w0gfg3.jpg]




And you take these people at their word?


Ralph


That's not a book review, and neither was Veranna's critique. That you continue to conflate both speaks only of the lack of reading comprehension they have (rather justly it appears) accused you of.

But I'm not inclined to read your book either. I looked it up on Amazon and perused the first dozen or so pages available online. Do you know what I didn't see? A single fucking citation. I've read professional academic works before, so your book is without citation and published by a company specializing in fringe and crank pseudo-science, and you want me to take you seriously? As far as I can tell you belong on the same shelf as Michael Behee and his 'Darwin's Black Box'; it's a book written to fool laypeople and make money, not to try and change the academic consensus of educated peers. Get your evidence and citation in order, get your work peer reviewed, and get it published by an at least somewhat respectable company; then I might spend the time to read your work in it's entirety. Drinking Beverage

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09-01-2014, 02:51 PM
RE: Water to Wine was a well-known trick jug
(09-01-2014 11:43 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Get your evidence and citation in order, get your work peer reviewed, and get it published by an at least somewhat respectable company; then I might spend the time to read your work in it's entirety. Drinking Beverage

But the academic establishment hates meeee! It's a conspiraceeee!

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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