We Pay More In Taxes, We Should Get More Votes!
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14-02-2014, 04:28 PM
RE: We Pay More In Taxes, We Should Get More Votes!
I wonder, if billionaires got more votes... Would they stop using tax loopholes? Or is money still more appealing than power?

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14-02-2014, 09:31 PM (This post was last modified: 14-02-2014 09:44 PM by frankksj.)
RE: We Pay More In Taxes, We Should Get More Votes!
(14-02-2014 12:26 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  This study shows that 40% of Americans pay a negative tax rate. Meaning they do not pay anything into the system, but rather, the system pays them.

I disagree. There are NO freeloaders because all the government services which amount to anything are covered by state and local taxes--not Federal income taxes. Before anybody says Social Security and Medicaid--no those aren't paid with Federal income taxes. They have their own tax. Federal services like the TSA? EVERYBODY, rich and poor, pays the airport security and landing taxes that cover the Federal services. The FCC? Actually the companies that use the RF spectrum pay them. There is really only a handful of useful government services paid for with federal income tax, like say NPR.

So even if you pay ZERO federal income taxes, you are STILL paying for nearly all the government services you use through property and sales tax. Federal income tax really covers only 1 major expense: WAR. And, yes, the tax is very progressive, so that poor people pay nothing for the wars, and the rich cover the cost. However, IMO, that's fair because, at least lately, all the wars have been started to defend the monetary system which transfers wealth from the poor and middle class to the very rich anyway. I hate the idea of an income tax, and see it akin to slavery, and want to to get rid of it, and all the wars that go with it. But IF there's going to be an income tax to pay for all these wars I _DO_ believe the people who benefit from them should pay for them.
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15-02-2014, 12:49 AM (This post was last modified: 15-02-2014 12:53 AM by toadaly.)
RE: We Pay More In Taxes, We Should Get More Votes!
(14-02-2014 12:09 PM)wazzel Wrote:  You might want to relook into who benifits from a fair tax. The sales tax would replace ALL federal income taxes including corporate profits, capital gains, estate and gift taxes. Who get the most bang from those going away?

The poor, who would pay a negative tax rate due to the prebate of the fair tax. But the idiot in the OP would also benefit slightly.

edit: by idiot, I'm referring to Perkins.

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15-02-2014, 07:04 AM
RE: We Pay More In Taxes, We Should Get More Votes!
(14-02-2014 01:35 PM)cjlr Wrote:  I'm not sure which polemic dystopian novel you're apparently writing to us from, but there's a difference between "things are imperfect" and "EVERYTHING IS FUNDAMENTALLY CORRUPT BY DESIGN WAKE UP SHEEPLE".

Its not one or the other. Its both.

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15-02-2014, 09:17 AM
RE: We Pay More In Taxes, We Should Get More Votes!
(15-02-2014 12:49 AM)toadaly Wrote:  
(14-02-2014 12:09 PM)wazzel Wrote:  You might want to relook into who benifits from a fair tax. The sales tax would replace ALL federal income taxes including corporate profits, capital gains, estate and gift taxes. Who get the most bang from those going away?

The poor, who would pay a negative tax rate due to the prebate of the fair tax. But the idiot in the OP would also benefit slightly.

edit: by idiot, I'm referring to Perkins.
The poor already have negative tax rates. Try again. They also do not vote in large numbers or have much pull in congress.
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15-02-2014, 10:02 AM
RE: We Pay More In Taxes, We Should Get More Votes!
(14-02-2014 01:57 PM)wazzel Wrote:  Both are preferential to rich people.

IMO, we should suppress the ugly emotions of jealousy and schadenfreude. If something benefits the rich and also the poor, it's a win-win for everybody. It's irrational to call for a lose-lose system that hurts everybody just to see the rich suffer.

I agree Perkins' comments about getting more votes are idiotic (especially since he had the audacity to say them out loud). But the fact is he's also done a lot more good for the American people than any of us on this forum. Perkins is self-made. The company he founded, Kleiner Perkins, is the top investor in Silicon Valley. KP has funded more than 500 companies, including many of the most successful, like Google and Amazon. The companies KP helped build have created millions of job, and trillions of revenue, and billions of tax revenue. Yes, he got very rich for doing it. But it really was a win-win for everybody.

While it's understandable to roll our eyes over such a stupid comment, when people come out with their pitchforks arguing he, and therefore his company KP, should be beheaded (see Minimalist's post) it's a lose-lose for everybody. You're just shooting yourself in the foot to get rid of Amazon, Google and all the other companies he helped create. It may feel good to indulge some pleasure by seeing the government tax the shit out of him so that he flees the country to live in exile somewhere, and you feel like "good riddance, kicked his sorry ass out". But having him move all his assets and investments overseas, so the next Amazon and Google he funds are in another country, is a stupid, self-inflicted wound.
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15-02-2014, 10:11 AM
RE: We Pay More In Taxes, We Should Get More Votes!
(14-02-2014 12:26 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  This study shows that 40% of Americans pay a negative tax rate. Meaning they do not pay anything into the system, but rather, the system pays them.

I always opt to have additional withholdings kept from each of my pay periods so I can have a nice fat "bonus" when I file my taxes. I'm essentially giving big brother an interest free loan. Because I'm a patriot like that.

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15-02-2014, 10:22 AM
RE: We Pay More In Taxes, We Should Get More Votes!
(15-02-2014 10:11 AM)Cephalotus Wrote:  
(14-02-2014 12:26 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  This study shows that 40% of Americans pay a negative tax rate. Meaning they do not pay anything into the system, but rather, the system pays them.

I always opt to have additional withholdings kept from each of my pay periods so I can have a nice fat "bonus" when I file my taxes. I'm essentially giving big brother an interest free loan. Because I'm a patriot like that.

If you are bad at saving, you can have your paycheck direct deposited ino your bank, then have automatic transfers to an interest bearing account. May only be .5% but that's an extra $50 on your bonus.

Giving an interest free loan to the government is the silliest thing I've ever heard!

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15-02-2014, 10:38 AM
RE: We Pay More In Taxes, We Should Get More Votes!
(15-02-2014 10:22 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Giving an interest free loan to the government is the silliest thing I've ever heard!

This way, when one of the *many* idiots I know asks to borrow money, I'm not lying when I say I don't have it.

I was pretty much just pointing out that not everyone on the negative taxes list is shady.

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15-02-2014, 10:45 AM
RE: We Pay More In Taxes, We Should Get More Votes!
(15-02-2014 09:17 AM)wazzel Wrote:  The poor already have negative tax rates. Try again. They also do not vote in large numbers or have much pull in congress.

This has been analyzed by the President's staff. The results are in the wiki, which I previously linked.

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