'We Shouldn't Stoop To Their Level'
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27-09-2012, 09:37 AM
RE: 'We Shouldn't Stoop To Their Level'
(27-09-2012 09:27 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  I see negatives outweighing positives. Not only am I not in favor, I am greatly apposed. Only a psychopath would support it.

It is a mental illness that they cannot help. Very rarely do they, themselves, use it as a defense. Scientists and doctors who specialize in the fields of neurology, psychology, and genetics have found that it is a genuine disability. You may think they are assholes, but they don't know and can't know what an asshole is. As I said, they are incapable of empathy.

Your justifications for the death penalty are poor.

The justice system already differentiates between people who cannot help what they do and people who are fully culpable for their actions. I'm not suggesting removing that distinction. What I'm saying applies to the people who are classed as fully sane.

If you still think I'm proposing re-introducing the death penalty then you are still completely missing my point.

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27-09-2012, 09:38 AM
RE: 'We Shouldn't Stoop To Their Level'
(27-09-2012 09:04 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Again, I believe your position would change if you were actually encountered with the choice.

So you would deny me the choice?

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27-09-2012, 09:44 AM
RE: 'We Shouldn't Stoop To Their Level'
(27-09-2012 09:37 AM)Hughsie Wrote:  
(27-09-2012 09:27 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  I see negatives outweighing positives. Not only am I not in favor, I am greatly apposed. Only a psychopath would support it.

It is a mental illness that they cannot help. Very rarely do they, themselves, use it as a defense. Scientists and doctors who specialize in the fields of neurology, psychology, and genetics have found that it is a genuine disability. You may think they are assholes, but they don't know and can't know what an asshole is. As I said, they are incapable of empathy.

Your justifications for the death penalty are poor.

The justice system already differentiates between people who cannot help what they do and people who are fully culpable for their actions. I'm not suggesting removing that distinction. What I'm saying applies to the people who are classed as fully sane.

If you still think I'm proposing re-introducing the death penalty then you are still completely missing my point.

Explain to me how a murderer is sane? Said suspect would have had to suspend every ounce of rationality, at least for the act, indicating that they cannot control themselves. Lock them up.

No, I never thought that. I am asking you as to how you could justify it.

(27-09-2012 09:38 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(27-09-2012 09:04 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Again, I believe your position would change if you were actually encountered with the choice.

So you would deny me the choice?

Where did I say that?

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27-09-2012, 09:45 AM
RE: 'We Shouldn't Stoop To Their Level'
(27-09-2012 09:02 AM)Dom Wrote:  Jail would be hell on earth to me.
Death would be peace.

I kind of agree - especially when thinking of a SuperMax prison. They are the torture chamber of the psyche as far as I'm concerned... they are called extended control facilities.

No human contact for the rest of one's life, the one 4 inch wide window, no conversation allowed accept for transport or medical assistance. Don't know about magazines, news, radio, do know that only educational and/or religious tv is piped in to the cell, no internet, limited book selection, inspected personal mail once a week, fresh air in dog-run type area for one half an hour a day. Meals on tray through the door. Eat & bathe in cell - minimal transport.
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I don't know if it's prohibited, but if I couldn't paint or draw - I would need to die. I would probably make myself die, somehow. Undecided

I think in the end, I just feel like I'm a secular person who has a skeptical eye toward any extraordinary claim, carefully examining any extraordinary evidence before jumping to conclusions. ~ Eric ~ My friend ... who figured it out.
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27-09-2012, 09:46 AM
RE: 'We Shouldn't Stoop To Their Level'
Now justify the morality of vengeance.

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27-09-2012, 09:46 AM
RE: 'We Shouldn't Stoop To Their Level'
Guys, the problem here, as often, is that we don't know shit.

We do not really know what makes a psychopath, we don't even know how to properly identify one, and the term is thrown around indiscriminately.

Given that we don't know shit, who is going to identify the psychopath in the first place?

How can one even talk about what to do with such a person when we don't know how to properly identify ne, and what causes the disorder?

Hopefully our research into the brain will provide some answers on this soon. And once it does, our conversation may become obsolete, as there is likely a fix for any disorder, and we should be able to allow the "psychopath" to feel empathy after all and live a normal life.

Meanwhile, I agree that society needs to be protected from Psychopaths. But I do not believe that they should be punished for something they cannot change.

I still maintain that there should be a choice between jail and death, and that such individuals are perfectly able to work for their keep just like anyone else.

But this is a (hopefully very) temporary solution. Generations after us will look at this discussion as something from the dark ages, when mentally impaired people were town idiots or were put to death or incarcerated for life.... this is only half a step up from what used to happen to all people with any mental disorders.

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27-09-2012, 09:47 AM
RE: 'We Shouldn't Stoop To Their Level'
What do you have to do to get stuck in one of those? That's horrible Sad
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27-09-2012, 09:49 AM
RE: 'We Shouldn't Stoop To Their Level'
(27-09-2012 09:44 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(27-09-2012 09:37 AM)Hughsie Wrote:  The justice system already differentiates between people who cannot help what they do and people who are fully culpable for their actions. I'm not suggesting removing that distinction. What I'm saying applies to the people who are classed as fully sane.

If you still think I'm proposing re-introducing the death penalty then you are still completely missing my point.

Explain to me how a murderer is sane? Said suspect would have had to suspend every ounce of rationality, at least for the act, indicating that they cannot control themselves. Lock them up.

No, I never thought that. I am asking you as to how you could justify it.

(27-09-2012 09:38 AM)Dom Wrote:  So you would deny me the choice?

Where did I say that?

You personally didn't, but humanists as a whole are dead set against the death penalty, even if it is by choice. Or perhaps they can't even envision that someone would choose it?

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Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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27-09-2012, 09:52 AM
RE: 'We Shouldn't Stoop To Their Level'
(27-09-2012 09:44 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Explain to me how a murderer is sane? Said suspect would have had to suspend every ounce of rationality, at least for the act, indicating that they cannot control themselves. Lock them up.

No, I never thought that. I am asking you as to how you could justify it.

You're gonna say that acting irrationally automatically makes someone clinically insane? So every religious person in the world should be declared clinically insane? Every person that ever over-reacts to a situation is clinically insane? Every person who ever makes a stupid decision is clinically insane?

Courts already make judgements on whether or not a criminal is sane and treat them accordingly. What is wrong with doing that?

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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27-09-2012, 09:56 AM
RE: 'We Shouldn't Stoop To Their Level'
(27-09-2012 09:52 AM)Hughsie Wrote:  [
You're gonna say that acting irrationally automatically makes someone clinically insane? So every religious person in the world should be declared clinically insane? Every person that ever over-reacts to a situation is clinically insane? Every person who ever makes a stupid decision is clinically insane?

Courts already make judgements on whether or not a criminal is sane and treat them accordingly. What is wrong with doing that?

Actually, everything is wrong with that, but it's all we got as yet.

Like said above, we don't know shit about what causes these things and some day we will and there will be a fix and our age will be looked upon as the age of ignorance and cruelty.

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