'We Shouldn't Stoop To Their Level'
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27-09-2012, 01:09 PM
RE: 'We Shouldn't Stoop To Their Level'
(27-09-2012 12:36 PM)KidCharlemagne1962 Wrote:  
(27-09-2012 12:27 PM)Dom Wrote:  I am not arguing with the judicial system and I did say that it is all we got. But we have it in it's current shape because we do not know shit about the brain.

All human actions are initiated by brain processes, and unusual actions are likely to be caused by unusual brain processes. We have slapped labels on varying degrees of "oddness" of brain processes, that's all.

We have zero understanding of what these processes actually are. We project our own way of processing onto the wayward individual and label things according to how large the variance we can perceive is.

I still say that when it comes to the understanding of what makes people tick, we are only one half step above the dark ages. People from the future will surely look back at how we did things and call it ignorant and cruel.

There is encouraging progress in analysing brain functions though, and I feel quite confident that we will be able to actually identify the issues sometime in the near future.

That will bring us closer to being able to provide the "missing link" in the brain process, and an individual labelled "psychopath" today will be able to seek treatment instead of being put to death or locked away.

In the meantime, we do have to do what we can to protect society. As imperfect and ignorant as that may be.

Fair enough. I guess I see it through a lens of most crimes being commited becuase of some type of personal gain. I think that at the end of the day the number of truly mentally ill (unable to understand what the are doing is wrong or its consequences cause suffering).

And I don't see it at all as mentally ill or mentally sane. I see it all as deviating brain processes, and we define them by labelling them according to the perceived degree of deviance.

Even the "personal gain" cases are missing the brain function that allows you and me to go to full stop and avoid the action, while the criminal has no "full stop" built in.

I think all the answers will come with continued brain research.

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Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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27-09-2012, 01:48 PM
RE: 'We Shouldn't Stoop To Their Level'
(27-09-2012 10:05 AM)Hughsie Wrote:  
(27-09-2012 09:59 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Where did I say simply acting irrationally means you are clinically insane? I said if you kill someone, you are clinically insane.

Courts don't, scientists do. When do judges or the jury go and research genetics and neuroscience?

Now, justify vengeance.

"Explain to me how a murderer is sane? Said suspect would have had to suspend every ounce of rationality"

There's where you said it.

Can you really say you are honestly above vengeance? What if someone raped a child but within a week those urges had gone, would you release them because they are no longer a threat to society? What if it was proven that giving a paedophile their freedom and a million pound cheque reduced re-offending rates by 90%, would you scrap custodial sentences? What if someone got into an argument with your best friend and killed him in cold blood but was instantly overcome with remorse for his actions, would you argue that he shouldn't be punished?

"And kill a person." - Should have added that.

You would have to come up with sufficient evidence that they would not do so again. I am fully prepared to accept death of loved ones and friends. I have already lost a friend to drunk driving. Did I hate the driver responsible for his death? No. Did I want him dead? No. Did I want him off the streets and in rehab? Yes.

I would be happy to release said offenders if there was some way to provide conclusive proof that they would no longer kill again, and that they are not victims of a mental or psychological disorder. No such thing exists, so the safest option is to lock them up (not to kill them). I am not above vengeance, no, and I acknowledge that. This is precisely why I would not want to be dictating the criminal's right to live in my emotional state. But what you have said does not justify vengeance.

If one is going to make a decision, let it be done on rational grounds. How are you any better than a person who kills out of hate, spite, or jealousy if you succumb to the same emotions that breed murderers? The bottom line is this: Lock them up. More death is not a necessity, nor would it be an economic issue upon law reform.

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27-09-2012, 05:26 PM
RE: 'We Shouldn't Stoop To Their Level'
Until we (the scientists/neurologists) work out exactly what's physically going on in the heads of those who commit heinous crimes there will never be fitting solutions.

Until then maybe the criminally insane may benefit from a little frontal labotomy! Big Grin

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