We are all born atheists?
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09-03-2014, 08:39 PM
RE: We are all born atheists?
You're arguing the existence bit a little much for someone claiming to be agnostic!

Onward, my faithful steed!
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09-03-2014, 08:42 PM
RE: We are all born atheists?
(09-03-2014 08:23 PM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  Several atheists I have encountered have suggested this, and I find it interesting.

To be an atheist, you first need knowledge of theism, in order to reject it. No?

Atheism is a position one takes, where they have come to realize that there is no God, or rather that there is no evidence in which to believe in God.

When atheists suggest that we are all born atheists, I think what they mean is that we are born ignorant of the idea of god. But then again, babies are entirely ignorant to many things; but these many things do surely exist in the material world, they just haven't encountered them yet.

So it's not that we're born 'rejecting' God as much as we're born ignorant of God.

Wrong again.
A-symptomatic. Absence of symptoms.
A-symmetrical. Absence of symmetry.
A-theist. Absence of theism.

There is nothing further implied by "absence".
You are an atheist, except for the one deity your culture indoctrinated you into.
Humans learn. They are not born with theism. The probability is overwhelming that if you were born into another faith, you would buy into that faith.

“We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.”
― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

There is no "position" implied by the dismissal of crap ideas.
You're saying the position that there is no 1957 Chevy orbiting Pluto is a belief system.

Sadcryface
The absence of belief is not belief in absence.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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09-03-2014, 08:45 PM
RE: We are all born atheists?
(09-03-2014 08:33 PM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  
(09-03-2014 08:29 PM)Smercury44 Wrote:  Yeah, what donotwant said. Atheism is nothing more than not believing in god(s), so if we are born without knowledge of them, we are born atheists.

In fact, if you introduce most young children to the idea of god(s) for the first time, they'll act like you're crazy

So atheism is a 'non-belief'(ignorance) more so than a 'rejection' of a belief?

But doesn't the 'A' before 'theism' technically mean 'against'? So it would mean 'against theism', right?

And most children I know come to the belief in God without a fuss.

I wouldn't classify atheism in the ignorance category. It's a rejection of the idea that a Deity or deities, exist. That there is no god at all. There's a lot of depth to it, I think...this is just the broadest, most common way of viewing Atheism.

Most children don't have a choice in the matter, so ''without a fuss'' means, they just did what they were expected to do, within their family of origin. Even in early years of childhood, I was taught to fear God. Religion tends to breed fear. It wouldn't have lasted as long as it has, without that element sort of motivating it. Fear is a powerful tool to get a child to comply. The Bible is riddled with passages instilling fear, meanwhile, 'do not be afraid' was the most often spoken phrase that Jesus was known to have said to his followers. Unsure

The beauty of the heart, is the lasting beauty. - Rumi Heart
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09-03-2014, 08:47 PM
RE: We are all born atheists?
Quote:The Bible is riddled with passages instilling fear, meanwhile, 'do not be afraid' was the most often spoken phrase that Jesus was known to have said to his followers. Unsure
do not be afraid of anyone but him is what he meant Big Grin
There is actually verse in the bible that says fear no one but god for only he can destroy soul or cast you in hell
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09-03-2014, 08:48 PM
RE: We are all born atheists?
(09-03-2014 08:37 PM)rampant.a.i. Wrote:  Ignorance is willfully ignoring a fact.

No it's not. I'm ignorant of the history of the French ballet, but I'm not willfully ignoring anything about it, I'm just uneducated when it comes to that particular topic. Ignorant and its variations simply means a lack of knowledge on a subject. Too many times people are insulted by this word, too, which I find hilarious because the mere fact that they are insulted by it only proves they are ignorant.

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Atheism promotes critical thinking; theism promotes hypocritical thinking. -- Me
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09-03-2014, 08:49 PM
RE: We are all born atheists?
My son was definitely born one. Before christmas this last year I tried to have a talk with him about god, so that we wouldn't have any awkward moments with the family over the holidays. He's three.

The conversation essentially went like this.

Me: gives a stupid and rather vague description about what god is.

Him: Where is he?

Me: Well, some people think he's just everywhere.

Him: Yeah......but I just can't know him. (in a tone that very obviously meant he thought I was crazy and wasn't going to entertain the conversation anymore)

Fuckin' kid's smarter than I could have imagined at three.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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09-03-2014, 09:00 PM
RE: We are all born atheists?
(09-03-2014 08:23 PM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  Several atheists I have encountered have suggested this, and I find it interesting.

To be an atheist, you first need knowledge of theism, in order to reject it. No?

Nope. Strawman much? Atheism isn't necessarily a rejection of theism, it simply means "not theist". One doesn't have to hear a fairy tale to not believe in it.

Quote:Atheism is a position one takes,

Nope.

Quote: where they have come to realize that there is no God, or rather that there is no evidence in which to believe in God.

Those are two example of atheism, but that does not describe all atheists.

Quote:When atheists suggest that we are all born atheists, I think what they mean is that we are born ignorant of the idea of god.

Not "ignorant". Strawman much?

Quote: But then again, babies are entirely ignorant to many things; but these many things do surely exist in the material world, they just haven't encountered them yet.

Your fairy tale monster does not "surely exist". Not by a long shot. And again, you have failed to demonstrate that yours actually exists.

Quote:So it's not that we're born 'rejecting' God as much as we're born ignorant of God.

That does not follow. It is neither a matter of "rejecting" your fairy tale monster (one can't "reject" something that doesn't exist), nor of being "ignorant of it", as again "it" would have to actually exist (which you have not shown) for one to be ignorant of "it".


You keep trying to sneak the purported existence of your fairytale deity through the back door. It's not working.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


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09-03-2014, 09:02 PM
RE: We are all born atheists?
(09-03-2014 08:48 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  
(09-03-2014 08:37 PM)rampant.a.i. Wrote:  Ignorance is willfully ignoring a fact.

No it's not. I'm ignorant of the history of the French ballet, but I'm not willfully ignoring anything about it, I'm just uneducated when it comes to that particular topic. Ignorant and its variations simply means a lack of knowledge on a subject. Too many times people are insulted by this word, too, which I find hilarious because the mere fact that they are insulted by it only proves they are ignorant.

Exactly. Stone age people were ignorant of quantum physics. But they didn't choose to ignore something they never heard of.
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09-03-2014, 09:05 PM
RE: We are all born atheists?
(09-03-2014 08:33 PM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  
(09-03-2014 08:29 PM)Smercury44 Wrote:  Yeah, what donotwant said. Atheism is nothing more than not believing in god(s), so if we are born without knowledge of them, we are born atheists.

In fact, if you introduce most young children to the idea of god(s) for the first time, they'll act like you're crazy

So atheism is a 'non-belief'(ignorance) more so than a 'rejection' of a belief?

Non-belief is not "ignorance". Strawman.

Quote:But doesn't the 'A' before 'theism' technically mean 'against'? So it would mean 'against theism', right?


No. It means "not". Ever crack open a dictionary?

Quote:And most children I know come to the belief in God without a fuss.

They also come to believe in Santa Claus and the fucking Tooth Fairy without a fuss. Shouldn't that tell you something? Hobo

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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09-03-2014, 09:06 PM
RE: We are all born atheists?
4 minutes





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