We are all born atheists?
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10-03-2014, 12:13 AM
RE: We are all born atheists?
(10-03-2014 12:05 AM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  
(09-03-2014 11:43 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  I don't believe you.

That's not my problem.

Your problem is that you are a liar and a troll.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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10-03-2014, 12:16 AM (This post was last modified: 10-03-2014 12:29 AM by Im_Ryan.)
RE: We are all born atheists?
(09-03-2014 11:14 PM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  
(09-03-2014 11:08 PM)Im_Ryan Wrote:  Side Note: I have not read any comments passed the first page.

You seem to be confused on the meaning of the term 'atheism'. The highlighted passage in green is correct. Though, just because we don't believe in a God, doesn't mean we reject it. Tricky wording there.

The passage I crossed out has nothing to do with being born an atheist. A good comparison would be, if a republican couple had a baby, would you call it a republican as well? Of course not! The baby does not have the information needed to make an informed choice. There is no such thing as a theistic baby just as there is no such thing as a political baby.

As for the term 'rejection'when referring to an atheist, that is incorrect. Everyone is an atheist when referring to one God or another, but does that mean you reject them? No, it just means you don't care. The Anzande supreme God Onyame [who created the world and all lesser Gods] has no influence on your life nor [probably] anyone you know. Do you reject him? No, you just don't care [or know].

"We are all atheists, some of us just go one god further."

Yes, I understand now. 'Atheism' is a description, not necessarily a position.

Thank you.

So any other questions/comments/concerns? I honestly don't feel like reading 8 pages of comments. Not to sound like an ass, but we get these exact questions a lot.
If you're wanting to actually learn, then I have no problem answering any of your questions to the best of my abilities.

Edit: Fun video to watch about "rejecting god". It's only 7 minutes, worth the watch.



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10-03-2014, 12:16 AM
RE: We are all born atheists?
(10-03-2014 12:08 AM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  
(10-03-2014 12:01 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  "Real" meaning "true".


But it would be rather silly for you or I to say that we "reject" Harry Potter.

True. But if someone claimed that Harry Potter was real, you would reject their claim, thereby rejecting the existence of Harry Potter.

Rejecting the CLAIMED EXISTENCE of Harry Potter. But not "rejecting Harry Potter". Again: You keep trying to sneak the presumption in. Its not working.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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10-03-2014, 12:19 AM
RE: We are all born atheists?
(10-03-2014 12:08 AM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  
(10-03-2014 12:01 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  "Real" meaning "true".


But it would be rather silly for you or I to say that we "reject" Harry Potter.

True. But if someone claimed that Harry Potter was real, you would reject their claim, thereby rejecting the existence of Harry Potter.
The real existence of the fictional character Harry Potter as depicted in the books and movies is fairly simple to falsify. The evidence would not be difficult. There would be no reason to remain "unconvinced" or remain a Harry Potter agnostic. No, based on the evidence, I would be able to reject the claim that he really exists. However, I would not be rejecting "Harry" since I can't reject someone who doesn't exist.
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10-03-2014, 12:19 AM
RE: We are all born atheists?
(10-03-2014 12:13 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(10-03-2014 12:05 AM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  That's not my problem.

Your problem is that you are a liar and a troll.

Taq, not to be rude, but why do you always [seemingly] attack the new comers? Some are trolls yes, but you gotta at least give them a chance or it's you who comes off as an ass, and not the troll.
I've seen other replies to you of this nature, though I'm just becoming aware of it. I used to think you were cool with everyone, not just atheists. What changed?

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10-03-2014, 12:21 AM
RE: We are all born atheists?
(10-03-2014 12:16 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(10-03-2014 12:08 AM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  True. But if someone claimed that Harry Potter was real, you would reject their claim, thereby rejecting the existence of Harry Potter.

Rejecting the CLAIMED EXISTENCE of Harry Potter. But not "rejecting Harry Potter". Again: You keep trying to sneak the presumption in. Its not working.

Your presumption of my presumption is quite silly.
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10-03-2014, 12:22 AM
RE: We are all born atheists?
(10-03-2014 12:19 AM)Charis Wrote:  
(10-03-2014 12:08 AM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  True. But if someone claimed that Harry Potter was real, you would reject their claim, thereby rejecting the existence of Harry Potter.
The real existence of the fictional character Harry Potter as depicted in the books and movies is fairly simple to falsify. The evidence would not be difficult. There would be no reason to remain "unconvinced" or remain a Harry Potter agnostic. No, based on the evidence, I would be able to reject the claim that he really exists. However, I would not be rejecting "Harry" since I can't reject someone who doesn't exist.


That makes sense.
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10-03-2014, 12:24 AM
RE: We are all born atheists?
(10-03-2014 12:19 AM)Im_Ryan Wrote:  
(10-03-2014 12:13 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  Your problem is that you are a liar and a troll.

Taq, not to be rude, but why do you always [seemingly] attack the new comers? Some are trolls yes, but you gotta at least give them a chance or it's you who comes off as an ass, and not the troll.
I've seen other replies to you of this nature, though I'm just becoming aware of it. I used to think you were cool with everyone, not just atheists. What changed?

You see that (s)he has already started yet ANOTHER thread trolling inane bullshit that has been done to death in this forum a thousand times over, right? Are you picking up a pattern yet?

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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10-03-2014, 12:26 AM
RE: We are all born atheists?
(10-03-2014 12:21 AM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  
(10-03-2014 12:16 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  Rejecting the CLAIMED EXISTENCE of Harry Potter. But not "rejecting Harry Potter". Again: You keep trying to sneak the presumption in. Its not working.

Your presumption of my presumption is quite silly.

Not at all. It's quite obvious.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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10-03-2014, 12:30 AM
RE: We are all born atheists?
(09-03-2014 11:52 PM)rampant.a.i. Wrote:  
(09-03-2014 10:51 PM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  Good point.

So atheism is simply the lack of belief in God, regardless of said reason for their lack of belief? They could have come to it themselves, or are just not aware of the idea of God. Both would be atheism?

No, because a "lack of awareness" of <God exists> in the absence of empirical evidence denotes a bias for the existence of God.

"Lack of awareness" is presupposing <God exists> and gouging such a position special pleading.

No, she specifically said unaware of the idea of god, which does not possess bias towards the existence of one.

Yes, you are correct Shimmy, both would fall under atheism. A baby is born ignorant of the concept of god and is therefore, by default, an atheist, since the definition of atheism does not specify the reasons for coming to a lack of belief. However, it should be noted that anyone that identifies as an atheist HAS "rejected" the idea of gods.

I'd like to talk about the rejection a bit, since it seems to be causing a bit of confusion on your end (and I don't feel that it has satisfactorily been answered). It's not so much wholesale rejection as it is a rejection of aspects. For example, I reject a significant portion (though not all) gods for being logically invalid concepts (especially the omni-max ones), although ultimately the one common thread in my lack of a belief in all gods is a simple lack of evidence and a lack of an indication that any evidence will be found.

What I do NOT reject, from an epistemic viewpoint, is the possibility of gods. This makes me an agnostic atheist: I lack belief in gods, but do not claim certainty in their non-existence. I hold to the viewpoint that since humans are fallible creatures, we can NEVER declare 100% certainty on ANYTHING. On the other hand, a gnostic atheist DOES reject the possibility of gods (actually a pretty rare group and usually only found in the most militant of anti-theist circles).

As for Taq, my advice is to ignore him. Despite the fact that a majority of your posts have been genuine inquires and that you have admitted to mistakes on your part, which seem to support the idea that you are here to learn what atheism actually is, he's gotten the idea in his head that you are here to sneak in apologetic bullshit through the backdoor. Frankly, I don't think he has the intellectual maturity to even consider reevaluating his position.Trust me, you won't be missing much. Drinking Beverage

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