We are slaves to our minds. Nature of the soul.
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
11-08-2012, 08:42 PM
We are slaves to our minds. Nature of the soul.
(11-08-2012 07:32 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  I like being the slave of my own neural impulses.

I wish I could be a slave to your neural impulses.

Youth is wasted on the young. Dodgy

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Erxomai's post
11-08-2012, 09:00 PM
RE: We are slaves to our minds. Nature of the soul.
(11-08-2012 06:05 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(11-08-2012 04:03 PM)Luminon Wrote:  Please, Chas. I don't want to sound patronizing or anything, you're the more intelligent and experienced here. But you frustrate me. I want to praise the interested and creative thinking. And maybe show it to you as an example.
What if first we need go get curious if the soul exists? You don't seem to be curious at all. If you were, you'd read the last two paragraphs and think about the experiences and psychologic phenomenon that I describe. Then you'd write something like,
- you never heard of it nor experienced it or
- it might have such and such such scientific explanation or
- there is already such and such research on something that might be it.

Too bad there is no God, I'd so want to say God save us from uncurious people Undecided

Albert Einstein said, "I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious."
Is there anything you are passionately curious about?

Dude, I think that Chas (in his terse statement) is saying that even if he was curious before, he is no longer. The evidence has been weighed and found wanting.

More or less.

I have put a lot of thought and study into this issue and it comes down to dualism vs. mind as an emergent property of the brain. There is no evidence of a mechanism for dualism - it is scientifically incoherent.

Research in neuroscience is making steady progress. More and more is discovered about brain structure and chemistry, and how they relate to cognition, perception, and emotion. All of this with the underlying model of materialism. When that can't align with evidence, I will sit up and take notice.

The recent results that indicate pre-conscious intentionality are very interesting and give support to the idea that our minds are made of semi-dependent modules cobbled together by evolution.

The very notion of 'soul' is inherently anti-Darwinian.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Chas's post
11-08-2012, 09:11 PM
RE: We are slaves to our minds. Nature of the soul.
(11-08-2012 09:00 PM)Chas Wrote:  The very notion of 'soul' is inherently anti-Darwinian.

I dunno 'bout dat, bruvva. All music evolves.

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like DLJ's post
12-08-2012, 04:49 PM
RE: We are slaves to our minds. Nature of the soul.
(11-08-2012 09:00 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(11-08-2012 06:05 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Dude, I think that Chas (in his terse statement) is saying that even if he was curious before, he is no longer. The evidence has been weighed and found wanting.

More or less.

I have put a lot of thought and study into this issue and it comes down to dualism vs. mind as an emergent property of the brain. There is no evidence of a mechanism for dualism - it is scientifically incoherent.

I'd go further and call it logically untenable.

(11-08-2012 09:00 PM)Chas Wrote:  The recent results that indicate pre-conscious intentionality are very interesting and give support to the idea that our minds are made of semi-dependent modules cobbled together by evolution.

The very notion of 'soul' is inherently anti-Darwinian.

Well, that depends on how you define "soul" doesn't it. A hodgepodge of semi-dependent modules inventing a pilot to resolve their differences and steer the ship despite any internal disputes feels consistent with evolution to me.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
13-08-2012, 06:51 AM
RE: We are slaves to our minds. Nature of the soul.
Im pretty baked at such an early time of the day so I apologise if my writing is a bit messy..... but I think dreaming is very interesting with regards to consciousness.

In my waking life I exist on this frequency..... I am a total of countless different neuron activities that fire without my say so.... and I go through this "reality" which is 99% empty space.

I can sort of "anesthetize" myself with sleep.... where certain brain functions can shut off.... however sometimes I can dream and because I can remember is this classified the same as our waking consciousness? That is it can seem real and bring up powerfull emotions??? What is it that makes us dream..... because it isnt something that happens on a regular basis???

Where am I located when I am dreaming? When I am awake I am aware I am in "reality/solidness" and this sense of "I" is concreted into place.

Yet this sense of "I" isnt constrained by the concreteness of "reality" when dreaming..... this sense of "I" and "reality" can be anything, anywhere and anytime.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
13-08-2012, 07:12 AM
RE: We are slaves to our minds. Nature of the soul.
I have never been as aware of being steered by neural impulses as in the present.

It's this grieving thing since my husband died. It's been over half a year now and still I am subject to reactions that are totally out of control by the rational mind.

I understand how it works. Most times that is enough to take control of things. But not with this.

For instance, I grieve when good things happen. Like, the plum tree is bearing for the first time and the plums are damn good. Does it make me happy? It makes me cry. I notice the lush plums, my mind instantly flashes on the last conversation I had with my husband about it, and that makes me cry.

So I went outside feeling fine, I see something nice, it makes me cry. It's all brain chemistry triggered by an impulse to tell hubby about it. I am still living the same life I was before I saw the plums, nothing changed except that something pleasurable occurred and my brain went the usual route - tell him about it - and he is not there anymore.

My brain does this constantly, any event that used to result in interaction with my husband triggers tears. This wears off after x number of exposures, depending on what it is. That plum will never bear for the first time again, so my brain is done with crying about it. It took a lot longer to get used to putting out just one fork and knife at dinner time - the impulse to grab two of each was ingrained for 26 years, every night, and it took time to stop the brain from going down that path.

So yes, there are layers of consciousness, and conditioning is very much influencing the way you feel. Like it or not (and I don't) you are driven by parts of your brain that you cannot control.

[Image: dobie.png]

Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Dom's post
13-08-2012, 07:16 AM
RE: We are slaves to our minds. Nature of the soul.
(11-08-2012 09:11 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(11-08-2012 09:00 PM)Chas Wrote:  The very notion of 'soul' is inherently anti-Darwinian.

I dunno 'bout dat, bruvva. All music evolves.

You make a good argument.Smartass

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
13-08-2012, 07:17 AM
RE: We are slaves to our minds. Nature of the soul.
(12-08-2012 04:49 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(11-08-2012 09:00 PM)Chas Wrote:  More or less.

I have put a lot of thought and study into this issue and it comes down to dualism vs. mind as an emergent property of the brain. There is no evidence of a mechanism for dualism - it is scientifically incoherent.

I'd go further and call it logically untenable.

(11-08-2012 09:00 PM)Chas Wrote:  The recent results that indicate pre-conscious intentionality are very interesting and give support to the idea that our minds are made of semi-dependent modules cobbled together by evolution.

The very notion of 'soul' is inherently anti-Darwinian.

Well, that depends on how you define "soul" doesn't it. A hodgepodge of semi-dependent modules inventing a pilot to resolve their differences and steer the ship despite any internal disputes feels consistent with evolution to me.

I absolutely agree, but that's not what most people mean by "the soul".

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
13-08-2012, 03:12 PM
RE: We are slaves to our minds. Nature of the soul.
(11-08-2012 09:00 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(11-08-2012 06:05 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Dude, I think that Chas (in his terse statement) is saying that even if he was curious before, he is no longer. The evidence has been weighed and found wanting.

More or less.

I have put a lot of thought and study into this issue and it comes down to dualism vs. mind as an emergent property of the brain. There is no evidence of a mechanism for dualism - it is scientifically incoherent.

Research in neuroscience is making steady progress. More and more is discovered about brain structure and chemistry, and how they relate to cognition, perception, and emotion. All of this with the underlying model of materialism. When that can't align with evidence, I will sit up and take notice.

The recent results that indicate pre-conscious intentionality are very interesting and give support to the idea that our minds are made of semi-dependent modules cobbled together by evolution.

The very notion of 'soul' is inherently anti-Darwinian.
Yes, this is why I use a different definition of a soul, a Theosophic one. It doesn't have anything to do with cognition, perception, emotion or evolution. Maybe only marginally.

I think the model of materialism is far from complete. As I said multiple times, there may be more forms of matter than just the good old solid and visible one. And these may participate on living and conscious processes. The problem is, even if that's true, even such exotic components of life must have a "representation" in the brain, that will carry the signal from subtle bodies to the biologic one. That's called living in the natural world, even the supernatural must use natural facilities or stay hypothetical.

So how do we find out if at least some brain or life-related activity is not caused by the brain itself or the world of earthly senses?
I don't know exactly, but examining some fringe experiences and weird anomalies would be a good start. Neurologists already do a good job of translating Buddhist terminology into their language. But there are also other traditions and experiences.

For example, mine. I've been through some pretty unusual stuff and I can't help but wonder what was going on in my brain at the time, if neurologists are already on track or how could Greg Bear in his novel describe basically the same experience. Or Theosophists in their books. It changed me, you know? Profound experiences do that. I promise you there was no Jesus or waterfall, that makes it more interesting. Spirituality without Hubble telescope images, is that even possible? Wink Tongue
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
14-08-2012, 06:41 AM
RE: We are slaves to our minds. Nature of the soul.
I go on and fucking on about chemical context, that self-awareness is nothing more than geometry, the pattern of the moment...

Yet I am JC, the risen philosophy; my identity seems as timeless as the void, while being as solid as the core of a neutron star. For someone like Lumi, I appear to be the poster child for the existence of "soul."

But let's ask Julia... who the fuck is Julia? That's what I want to know; that's about all I wanna know. Big Grin

If Johnny Cantor had a soul, there wouldn't be no fucking "Julias."

/story.

[Image: klingon_zps7e68578a.jpg]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: