We atheists just have to accept the fact that...
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31-05-2011, 12:46 PM
We atheists just have to accept the fact that...
...theists just flat out DO NOT LISTEN TO US. And not in like a "hear our evidence, but dismiss it" way. I mean like in a "after the conversation is over, a reset switch is thrown in their heads" way.

I don't know how many times we will have to hear the same arguments and use the same rebuttal.

"Yeah but everything has a cause"
"The universe is too complex not to be designed"
"Muddled attempt to use 2nd Law of Thermodynamics"
(Blank stare when asked what the other 3 Laws are)
"So you're saying we're all here because of an accident?"
"Without God, where would we get our morals from?"
"If we evolved from apes, how come there are still apes?"
"A lot of scientists believe in a 6,000 year old earth (thanks Doctor)"
"Then how can you explain the accurate history and prophecy in the [insert Holy Text]?"
"Well I knew a lady who cured 4 cancers at once by praying."
"The Bible is the word of God because the Bible says it is."
"Peanut butter... banana... eyeball... carbon dating is inaccurate."


And every time we give the predetermined, rational response to each fallacy and are greeted with blank stares and repeated assertions.

And it's not just new people coming to the forum. I talked to this guy I know once for like 2 hours in response to his "Well who designed it all?" question, using every bit of knowledge and resources I could muster. He conceded that "yeah, theism is kind of silly." Same exact person, the very next day... somehow God came up, and he went "well who designed it all?" and I slammed my head through time and space in the biggest facepalm ever.

It's not like we're reaching a stalemate here. They provide evidence, we debunk it, we explain it in 3 different languages and a plethora of "easy to learn" youtube videos. 3 pages later into the same post... exact same assertion.

I'm starting to think they're all secretly robots who go home every night to be reprogrammed by Fox News and the Trinity Broadcasting Network.

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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31-05-2011, 01:07 PM
RE: We atheists just have to accept the fact that...
Well I do have some hope. My wife finally admitted to me that the Bible was written by man and has mistakes. I call it an victory.

[Image: buddhasig.png]
“Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.” ~ Gautama Buddha
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31-05-2011, 01:32 PM
 
RE: We atheists just have to accept the fact that...
(31-05-2011 01:07 PM)The Doctor Wrote:  Well I do have some hope. My wife finally admitted to me that the Bible was written by man and has mistakes. I call it an victory.

Yeah, right... I bet you 10 cents and a half-chewed gum that people who admit that, secretly mumble to themselves that the bible have been written by a man, but that man was told to do so by god... Dodgy
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31-05-2011, 02:19 PM
RE: We atheists just have to accept the fact that...
(31-05-2011 01:32 PM)Celestus87 Wrote:  
(31-05-2011 01:07 PM)The Doctor Wrote:  Well I do have some hope. My wife finally admitted to me that the Bible was written by man and has mistakes. I call it an victory.

Yeah, right... I bet you 10 cents and a half-chewed gum that people who admit that, secretly mumble to themselves that the bible have been written by a man, but that man was told to do so by god... Dodgy

Hey, this is my wife you are talking about. I believe she is honest of what she says to me about her beliefs. We knew each other for about four years and her Christians views has moderated a bit. I would take any small victory I can get.

[Image: buddhasig.png]
“Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.” ~ Gautama Buddha
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31-05-2011, 02:32 PM
 
RE: We atheists just have to accept the fact that...
[Image: odin.png]

Well of course they don't listen to the damned atheists. Tongue
Most Christians that I know, including my former self, were/are raised in the church. Think of the babies that are born to Catholic families, who are baptized before they can speak a real word. And then they're later Christened so that they're welcomed into god's kingdom.
You know, that very place wherein their souls emanated from so as to be born by god's will, if it's not his will to miscarry them of course being pro-life and pro-take backs and all, into sin so as to forever make that child damned while saved while stepping from one cold saved foot to the other hot hell bound one?
Yeah, that one.

So that hard wiring, leading impressionable minds to believe complete mythtakes about their point of origin, life style and destiny, is filled with fear from the start to finish. It's all their choice, they're told. While god that knows all before it happens, watches and then judges the journey after they're dead. And if they die damned, it's fire and brimstone forever. (OK, why do I have this sudden urge to pull out my DVD copy of Constantine? Confused Certainly not for Keanu's acting. Tongue)
But if they're good they go to a place that makes materialists here look like beggers for lofty imaginations! That is, if their name is in the Book of Life. But if not, doesn't matter how good they were, they're damned anyway.

Talk about lack of gratitude! Sheesh! What if one dies a martyr?

People think it's real! The myth is true. Do think of the martyrs! Do the research. Hell of a way to suffer for a lie. But people did it, and still do, because they think the supreme being they can't see that does as it will no matter how much they suffer and beg it to stop or do more, needs human suffering to take place so as to insure it's dominion on it's created earth.
Every religion, mind you. It's a matter of brand and territory. Like selling product for a universal corporation. Out do the competition. Like during the crusades! Kill them!
Or during the many Inquisitions. Kill! Kill! Kill! And rule the market where souls are at stake. Of course, all that is just promise for later. When you aren't alive to feel what's real. But they don't know that, those believers that live for death bearing the optimism they'll live eternally rewarded for their faith they did well in order to get there.
No Christian alive strives to go to hell. But they firmly believe no one else but them goes to Heaven.

So when critical thinking is brought to their attention, as in asking simply; have you ever really thought about the basics of Christianity? They blink like wide eyed cows. Which is sign language for, no!

It's Sectarianism. Religious bias. Likened unto the rich and powerful compared to the poor and down trodden. The rich can't comprehend not being so. They look upon the homeless, the welfare recipient they've heard about paying at the grocery with food stamps whom their private chef was forced to stand behind while making that purchase for the nights soirée. That rich soul just can not comprehend such a lifestyle as that. Or, for that matter, most of the members here at TTA.

It's a matter of standard, class and the have and have not's .

Same goes for the Theist. Their individual faith is for the most part, the one and only truth. Everyone else is deluded or damned. So talking to them about thinking what that really means, and maybe seeing how impossible it all is, is incomprehensible when so much is at stake. So much wealth and reward after they're dead awaits if only they'll stay true while alive.
There's the rare exception's of course. Those who are curious, who's minds are opened just a crack, as opposed to fully cracked and unreachable. Those are the one's who are wiling to think outside the box and progress toward reason, while leaving fable and superstition where it belongs. As entertainment in real life. Not to be lived as if life depended on it.

Venture to that forum that was posted here under the heading something like, pot and christian chat, (Christianchat.com) And you'll see what we're all use to. Like talking a billionaire out of their mansion and debit card PIN number, while hoping to convince them it's silly to hold on to that what isn't real when it's all counterfeit. And the deeds and titles are first owned by the State.

Just as much chance of getting those keys to the Rolls Royce, as convincing a Theist god is pretend.
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31-05-2011, 03:25 PM
RE: We atheists just have to accept the fact that...
My father told me of a time when he discussed religion with an Evangelical employee while at lunch; after a few exchanges the guy said "With all due respect sir, I shall not discuss religion with you anymore. Satan is making you speak clever words to misguide me". No shit.

The God excuse: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument. "God did it." Anything we can't describe must have come from God. - George Carlin

Whenever I'm asked "What if you're wrong?", I always show the asker this video: http://youtu.be/iClejS8vWjo Screw Pascal's wager.
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31-05-2011, 06:02 PM
 
RE: We atheists just have to accept the fact that...
(31-05-2011 03:25 PM)Efrx86 Wrote:  My father told me of a time when he discussed religion with an Evangelical employee while at lunch; after a few exchanges the guy said "With all due respect sir, I shall not discuss religion with you anymore. Satan is making you speak clever words to misguide me". No shit.

I believe.

I've had about that same sentence said to me by a Fundy. Then again, young earther's aka/ young earth creationists, believe the earth and all the known universe(s) are no more than 10, 000 years old at most.
When asked about the countless Dinosaur fossils and their being dated to millions of years old, and I've heard this face to face, many of those folks will say those bones are put there by Satan so as to lead people (their people of course) from their faith.

What rarely ever happens is the Evangelical that will listen to or acknowledge it's worth a think, when someone (me again) says that all this conflict between good and evil wouldn't exist if an all knowing god wouldn't have created his arch nemesis, Satan, first.
Which gives them pause for about a minute.

But what really blows the Fundy skirt up is when one says this. Because at first it sounds like you're willing to listen to them. Wink

God sent Jesus as his only begotten son so as to save me from my sin so that I may be forgiven as a sinner, yes?

(Yes)

Well, if god is willing to save me from the sin his will bestowed upon me in the womb because of the transgression of Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden, why wouldn't he have first forgiven Adam and Eve for their one innocent mistake in eating an apple so that the whole world would be then saved from ever having to suffer sin at all?

(blink innocently, wait for reply)
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31-05-2011, 10:53 PM
RE: We atheists just have to accept the fact that...
Lol. I just looked at Buddy Christ's specs and his likes are at 666 and his post count was at 616. Tongue

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use." - Galileo

"Every man is guilty of all the good he did not do." - Voltaire
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31-05-2011, 11:21 PM (This post was last modified: 01-06-2011 12:54 AM by Spectre.)
RE: We atheists just have to accept the fact that...
I haven't seen very many Creationists using those arguments. You must just be getting lucky. If you only see those arguments then you haven't dealt with a Creationist that is informed on both Creation and Naturalism.

"But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:" Peter 3:15

http://www.answersforhope.org
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01-06-2011, 06:03 AM
RE: We atheists just have to accept the fact that...
Getting lucky? You do realize that we're talking about laymen who enjoy discussing topics they only slightly skim over right? A large portion of christians don't read the bible they just follow the preacher. If the preacher preaches creationism they don't look at the evidence they follow the preacher. Many who are out there don't know anything about this stuff they just know what their preacher told them. The reason atheists in most cases seem more informed is that most of us had to attain knowledge of many things to escape the stranglehold religion has in our areas. The general public doesn't really care they just live their life and let their preacher deal with all of this.

This is a forum for concerned atheists, there are plenty of very uninformed people who do not believe in a god as well, but they generally don't try to debate people and change their minds on it.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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