We can't judge god by our standards.
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28-11-2013, 04:50 PM
We can't judge god by our standards.
Can someone explain this argument to me? You can't judge god by our standards. Why not? We are in his image, which would include himself, no?

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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28-11-2013, 05:00 PM
RE: We can't judge god by our standards.
The consequentialist argument goes that God has knowledge of the "ultimate" impact of his and our actions, so is the only one placed to choose the best outcome. We from our limited perspective cannot possibly determine the ultimate impact of our actions.

This is moot for the following reasons:
- "The ends justify the means" is at best an incomplete moral model
- As you say, we are "made in his image". So why are his abhorrent actions so foreign to our innate moral sense, the one he instilled in us?
- God doesn't actually exist. The universe will eventually fall apart. Therefore we do know the ultimate consequences of our actions. These consequences are zip, nada, and nothing. So let's focus on consequences that actually matter, not these supposed ultimate consequences shall we? Wink

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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28-11-2013, 05:28 PM
RE: We can't judge god by our standards.
Some other variants of this argument:

God created morality to govern us, specifically, not himself. Morality is beneath God. Standards applied to humans were never meant to be applied to God. We should obey God's moral rules because God commanded it, not because they are good.
-- Ergo, all morality is arbitrarily made-up and has no truth other than "Big Boy told me to".

God, being omnipotent, can do anything he wants and HAVE IT BE MORAL, even things we would normally consider immoral.
-- Which, btw, is totally consistent with the Bible, so it must be true.

Humans should not judge God by moral standards, because humans should not judge God at ALL. We are neither equipped with the understanding and wisdom to do so, nor do we have any moral authority to do so. We are, after all, infinitely flawed and worthless, totally uncomprehending of the mysterious ways in which God moves, and so utterly sinful that any pronouncements we might make on the subject of morality are totally untrustworthy. We are supposed to obey in blind faith. No arbitration, no consideration, no judgement.
-- No, we're not allowed to judge whether God suffers the same moral flaws that rob us of the moral authority to pronounce judgement, weren't you LISTENING?

God is perfect. Any perceived flaw in God is the result of an error in how you perceive God. If you see God as immoral, this is a sign that you understand God incorrectly, and you must correct your flawed perception of God until you realize that God is perfect, after all.
-- And while you're at it, put those goal posts on the far side of the moon.
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28-11-2013, 05:36 PM
RE: We can't judge god by our standards.
I'll explain it: it's a guilt tripping, obedience induced, mind tricking concept to get people to feel okay with not questioning anything ever again.

But saying we are made in his image is a good start point to counter claim. Thumbsup
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28-11-2013, 05:39 PM
RE: We can't judge god by our standards.
I tend to counter this argument with the "you don't have to be a chef to tell that food is poorly prepared."
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28-11-2013, 05:53 PM
RE: We can't judge god by our standards.
(28-11-2013 04:50 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Can someone explain this argument to me? You can't judge god by our standards. Why not? We are in his image, which would include himself, no?

Yes...you got it right. However, the Christian Apologist will pull a 1000 Arguments out of his arse to try to contradict you, but they won't.
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28-11-2013, 06:10 PM
RE: We can't judge god by our standards.
The other thing that gets me is that if we can't understand anything about the mind of god, then what the fuck was the tree of knowledge about? We all get sentenced to hell for something that didn't really give us what he said it would?

We got ripped off big time. That's fucked up.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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28-11-2013, 06:22 PM
RE: We can't judge god by our standards.
They sure don't understand him, but they certainly vouch for him all the time.

"I don't have to have faith, I have experience." Joseph Campbell
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28-11-2013, 06:25 PM
RE: We can't judge god by our standards.
(28-11-2013 06:10 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  The other thing that gets me is that if we can't understand anything about the mind of god, then what the fuck was the tree of knowledge about? We all get sentenced to hell for something that didn't really give us what he said it would?

We got ripped off big time. That's fucked up.

Exactly! Genisis 3:21 states:

21 The Lord God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. 22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” 23 So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side[e] of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.

The quote can be found here: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?sea...ersion=NIV
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28-11-2013, 06:27 PM
RE: We can't judge god by our standards.
(28-11-2013 06:25 PM)Julius Wrote:  
(28-11-2013 06:10 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  The other thing that gets me is that if we can't understand anything about the mind of god, then what the fuck was the tree of knowledge about? We all get sentenced to hell for something that didn't really give us what he said it would?

We got ripped off big time. That's fucked up.

Exactly! Genisis 3:21 states:

21 The Lord God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. 22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” 23 So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side[e] of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.

The quote can be found here: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?sea...ersion=NIV

I'm gonna use that one from now on!!! Thanks!!

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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