We can't judge god by our standards.
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04-12-2013, 03:53 AM
RE: We can't judge god by our standards.
(03-12-2013 09:53 AM)alpha male Wrote:  Similarly, Americans who believe that abortion is killing children can't do much about it. They can judge, but it doesn't accomplish much.

You don't understand the concept of morality. You are essentially thinking about morality in theological terms, i.e. divine command morality but without a deity issuing the divine commands (and punishing their breach). The idea that there are completely different manners of conceptualising morality appears to be alien to your YouTube-based education in village atheism.
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04-12-2013, 07:11 AM
RE: We can't judge god by our standards.
(04-12-2013 03:53 AM)Chippy Wrote:  You don't understand the concept of morality. You are essentially thinking about morality in theological terms, i.e. divine command morality but without a deity issuing the divine commands (and punishing their breach). The idea that there are completely different manners of conceptualising morality appears to be alien to your YouTube-based education in village atheism.
You're completely clueless. My point is that morality - God's or yours - is essentially subjective, and I don't watch Youtube clips (except for the fox song).
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04-12-2013, 07:20 AM
RE: We can't judge god by our standards.
(04-12-2013 03:31 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  I do understand it, it's just stupid and flawed.
No, it's your apparent misunderstanding of it that's stupid and flawed. The concept that you'll be judged on the same basis that you judge others is quite reasonable.

(03-12-2013 10:17 AM)alpha male Wrote:  Everyone cares about themselves to a degree, it doesn't become 'narcissism' until it reaches the level being excessive and/or erotic. Forgive me if you can't be bothered to understand a definition when it's placed right in front of you. For fuck's sake, this is why your posts are a waste of space. Drinking Beverage
Excessive is relative to the person. Certain expectations might be reasonable for Obama, but excessive for you. Excessive is also a subjective judgment. Further, you haven't addressed the whole picture. You look at the first commandments, which focus on God. You ignore that he waited thousands of years before giving these, only gave them to a small portion of humanity, and the recipients stood to benefit as well. These factors go against the narcissism claim.
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04-12-2013, 07:27 AM
RE: We can't judge god by our standards.
(04-12-2013 07:11 AM)alpha male Wrote:  You're completely clueless.

Yes because so profound are you posts that only those with the depth to receive them can understand them.

Quote:My point is that morality - God's or yours - is essentially subjective

I understand your jejune crypto-theological conception of morality. Asserting that morality is "essentially subjective" is essentially facile. Also it is moot whether the subject-object distinction would apply to a divine person that possesses omniscience. I doubt that such a person--if he existed--would be possessed of a subjectivity because omniscience entails an indivisible union between subject and object. Perhaps you could instead argue that divine command morality is relativistic. Regardless, you point has no bearing on the OP and is generally confused.
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04-12-2013, 07:39 AM
RE: We can't judge god by our standards.
(04-12-2013 07:20 AM)alpha male Wrote:  Excessive is relative to the person. Certain expectations might be reasonable for Obama, but excessive for you. Excessive is also a subjective judgment. Further, you haven't addressed the whole picture. You look at the first commandments, which focus on God. You ignore that he waited thousands of years before giving these, only gave them to a small portion of humanity, and the recipients stood to benefit as well. These factors go against the narcissism claim.

It's still narcissistic; now it's just compounded with capriciousness, favoritism, ineffectiveness, and it's straight up fucking stupid.

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04-12-2013, 08:01 AM
RE: We can't judge god by our standards.
(04-12-2013 07:27 AM)Chippy Wrote:  Yes because so profound are you posts that only those with the depth to receive them can understand them.
No, more likely because you're projecting common theist positions onto me instead of reading what I've actually written and asking questions.

Quote:I understand your jejune crypto-theological conception of morality. Asserting that morality is "essentially subjective" is essentially facile. Also it is moot whether the subject-object distinction would apply to a divine person that possesses omniscience. I doubt that such a person--if he existed--would be possessed of a subjectivity because omniscience entails an indivisible union between subject and object. Perhaps you could instead argue that divine command morality is relativistic. Regardless, you point has no bearing on the OP and is generally confused.
My point is on topic and clear. Now you're projecting, and throwing in five-dollar words to try to cover your error.
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04-12-2013, 08:05 AM
RE: We can't judge god by our standards.
(04-12-2013 07:39 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  It's still narcissistic; now it's just compounded with capriciousness, favoritism, ineffectiveness, and it's straight up fucking stupid.
So, you start with the position that God is narcissistic, and evidence indicating otherwise is really evidence that God is narcissistic but not very good at it. Seriously?
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04-12-2013, 09:35 AM
RE: We can't judge god by our standards.
(04-12-2013 07:11 AM)alpha male Wrote:  and I don't watch Youtube clips (except for the fox song).

My daughters love that video!

That is all. Dodgy
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04-12-2013, 10:24 AM
RE: We can't judge god by our standards.
(04-12-2013 08:05 AM)alpha male Wrote:  
(04-12-2013 07:39 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  It's still narcissistic; now it's just compounded with capriciousness, favoritism, ineffectiveness, and it's straight up fucking stupid.
So, you start with the position that God is narcissistic, and evidence indicating otherwise is really evidence that God is narcissistic but not very good at it. Seriously?


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When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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04-12-2013, 12:53 PM
RE: We can't judge god by our standards.
(28-11-2013 11:16 PM)Chippy Wrote:  
(28-11-2013 10:31 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Once you jump onto the 'we can't judge god' train of thought, then you are at a dead-end. If we cannot use our flawed limited means to judge a god for his moral failings, then we conversely cannot also use those same flawed limited means to judge him morally good or superior either. At that point god is simply amoral, and worshiping him is about as pointless as worshiping a tornado or hurricane.

I don't understand the apparent compulsion you (and the others) are exhibiting. It is entirely possible to construct an internally consistent universe that is fictional, that is what Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter and Star Wars are. Calvinism is internally consistent as is Chabad.

Arguing about whether Yahweh is good or not is pointless, it is the same as arguing about whether Darth Vader is good or not. The Calvinist narrative accounts for the perception by humans of Yahweh's actions as wrong, it even accounts for atheism. It is a well-composed narrative. If you arrive at the conclusion that Darth Vader is good then you haven't understood the story. If you arrive at the conclusion that Yahweh is not all good then you also haven't understood the story.

Chippy.....just throwing this out there..

If i get into an argument about Darth Vader with someone......I would assume that both of us would know its fiction and concede to stay inside the narrative.....because this only exists inside the narrative.................If i get into a theological debate ......its different..... I'm debating someone who says his narrative is stone cold reality.... a reality that i am part and parcel to wether i like it or not.

So I supposed to argue reality and keep it inside their fictional narrative?????

That doesn't sound right to me..............just saying.


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