We can't judge god by our standards.
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06-12-2013, 05:47 PM
RE: We can't judge god by our standards.
(06-12-2013 05:33 PM)alpha male Wrote:  
(06-12-2013 05:21 PM)Cephalotus Wrote:  Something is effective just because it's old? WOOOOW. That's the most Christian thing I've heard all week.

Everyone else: I'm so sorry you guys have to deal with such obvious trolling attempts. I can understand why there have been so many people banned since I've been here.
Never heard the saying "stood the test of time"? This isn't rocket surgery. While there are exceptions, yes, continued use of an argument can be an indicator that it's effective.

rocket surgery?? Getting our expressions mixed up, are we? I think you mean rocket science. Or brain surgery.Consider

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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06-12-2013, 05:50 PM
RE: We can't judge god by our standards.
As Sabrina is fond of mockery, I'm fond of intentional mixed metaphors.
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06-12-2013, 06:11 PM (This post was last modified: 06-12-2013 07:27 PM by childeye.)
RE: We can't judge god by our standards.
(06-12-2013 05:24 PM)viole Wrote:  
(06-12-2013 05:05 PM)childeye Wrote:  No, I don't see it as an act of love. I believe they would be following the letter of the law and not the Spirit of Love. That is why there is a New Testament, wherein hypocrisy is exposed. Hence the scripture says that the letter kills but the Spirit gives life. I am assuming you know that the law condemned all men as sinners according to the New Testament.

Yes, but this letter of the law came directly from God, allegedly. Was the spirit of Love absent at that time? If God is, and I expect was, triune, what were two thirds of God doing at that time?

Ciao

- viole
You are quite thorough in using the word allegedly. Semantics are an issue here. Actually, the scriptures claim that the law was administered by angels and that Satan was at the top of the political order identified as the guardian Cherub just below God. Moreover, Satan did not know God as Love and reckoned righteousness as obedience to power oblivious to any empathy as being that power. This is clearly seen in the false image of God that is depicted in Genesis which he introduces to mankind and in which men did believe and even still do. That is why in New Testament writings it were those religious authorities of the Old Testament that plotted to crucify the Christ, the True Image of God sent by God. For their power and authority was threatened by the simple goodness and graciousness of the Christ. The Pharisees clearly portray the same self righteous vanity that is the product of reasoning upon such a false imagery of God.

Therefore whatever we see in the Old Testament is a testimony to the works of a vanity which is incumbent with a corrupt image of god, and not representative of thee God. For it is written that the law is not of faith and therefore cannot make any man righteous. It can only condemn, and it even would condemn God Himself if God came lowly, not recognized in His Glory. According to scripture, when this fact was witnessed in heaven by the events on earth pertaining to the crucifixion of God's Christ, war in heaven broke out and Satan was cast out of his high seat of power and a New order took control in heaven with the Christ now seated at the right hand of God. Mercy and understanding is now the measure of righteousness, all seen through empathy. Only now is any such triune complete in the witness thereof.
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06-12-2013, 06:21 PM
RE: We can't judge god by our standards.
(06-12-2013 06:11 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(06-12-2013 05:24 PM)viole Wrote:  Yes, but this letter of the law came directly from God, allegedly. Was the spirit of Love absent at that time? If God is, and I expect was, triune, what were two thirds of God doing at that time?

Ciao

- viole
Actually, the scriptures claim that the law was administered by angels and that Satan was at the top of the political order identified as the guardian Cherub just below God. Moreover, Satan did not know God as Love and reckoned righteousness as obedience to power rather than any empathy. This is clearly seen in the false image of God that is depicted in Genesis which he introduces to mankind and in which men did believe. That is why in New Testament writings it were those religious authorities of the Old Testament that plotted to crucify the Christ, the True Image of God sent by God. The Pharisees clearly portray the same self righteous vanity that is the product of reasoning upon such a false imagery of God.

Therefore whatever we see in the Old Testament is a testimony to the works of a vanity which is incumbent with a corrupt image of god, and not representative of thee God. For it is written that the law is not of faith and therefore cannot make any man righteous. It can only condemn, and it even would condemn God Himself if God came lowly, not recognized in His Glory. According to scripture, when this fact was witnessed in heaven by the events on earth pertaining to the crucifixion of God's Christ, war in heaven broke out and Satan was cast out of his high seat of power and a New order took control in heaven with the Christ now seated at the right hand of God.

Nestorian I see. As a theologian you get an F for butchering the old testament. As an apologists you are sitting on a bunch of assertions and presupositions that 99% of the people of this forum hold. Work on those and come back to make your pitch.

“The reason people use a crucifix against vampires is because vampires are allergic to bullshit.” ― Richard Pryor
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06-12-2013, 06:26 PM
RE: We can't judge god by our standards.
(06-12-2013 06:21 PM)djkamilo Wrote:  
(06-12-2013 06:11 PM)childeye Wrote:  Actually, the scriptures claim that the law was administered by angels and that Satan was at the top of the political order identified as the guardian Cherub just below God. Moreover, Satan did not know God as Love and reckoned righteousness as obedience to power rather than any empathy. This is clearly seen in the false image of God that is depicted in Genesis which he introduces to mankind and in which men did believe. That is why in New Testament writings it were those religious authorities of the Old Testament that plotted to crucify the Christ, the True Image of God sent by God. The Pharisees clearly portray the same self righteous vanity that is the product of reasoning upon such a false imagery of God.

Therefore whatever we see in the Old Testament is a testimony to the works of a vanity which is incumbent with a corrupt image of god, and not representative of thee God. For it is written that the law is not of faith and therefore cannot make any man righteous. It can only condemn, and it even would condemn God Himself if God came lowly, not recognized in His Glory. According to scripture, when this fact was witnessed in heaven by the events on earth pertaining to the crucifixion of God's Christ, war in heaven broke out and Satan was cast out of his high seat of power and a New order took control in heaven with the Christ now seated at the right hand of God.

Nestorian I see. As a theologian you get an F for butchering the old testament. As an apologists you are sitting on a bunch of assertions and presupositions that 99% of the people of this forum hold. Work on those and come back to make your pitch.
I do not know who Nestor is. I did not butcher anything. I am simply re-stating what scripture reports.
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06-12-2013, 06:27 PM
RE: We can't judge god by our standards.
Double post.
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06-12-2013, 06:34 PM
RE: We can't judge god by our standards.
(06-12-2013 05:23 PM)Free Wrote:  
(28-11-2013 04:50 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Can someone explain this argument to me? You can't judge god by our standards. Why not? We are in his image, which would include himself, no?

We can't judge this god at all.

How do you judge something that does not exist?
Respectfully, you misinterpret the persons point. The point being "if" God exists.
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06-12-2013, 06:38 PM
RE: We can't judge god by our standards.
(28-11-2013 04:50 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Can someone explain this argument to me? You can't judge god by our standards. Why not? We are in his image, which would include himself, no?

ikr
What else am I supposed to use this free will on he gave me? Loving his murderous ass? pffft

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06-12-2013, 06:40 PM (This post was last modified: 06-12-2013 07:11 PM by Cathym112.)
RE: We can't judge god by our standards.
(06-12-2013 06:11 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(06-12-2013 05:24 PM)viole Wrote:  Yes, but this letter of the law came directly from God, allegedly. Was the spirit of Love absent at that time? If God is, and I expect was, triune, what were two thirds of God doing at that time?

Ciao

- viole
You are quite thorough in using the word allegedly. Semantics are an issue here. Actually, the scriptures claim that the law was administered by angels and that Satan was at the top of the political order identified as the guardian Cherub just below God. Moreover, Satan did not know God as Love and reckoned righteousness as obedience to power rather than any empathy. This is clearly seen in the false image of God that is depicted in Genesis which he introduces to mankind and in which men did believe and even still do. That is why in New Testament writings it were those religious authorities of the Old Testament that plotted to crucify the Christ, the True Image of God sent by God. For their power and authority was threatened by the simple goodness and graciousness of the Christ. The Pharisees clearly portray the same self righteous vanity that is the product of reasoning upon such a false imagery of God.

Therefore whatever we see in the Old Testament is a testimony to the works of a vanity which is incumbent with a corrupt image of god, and not representative of thee God. For it is written that the law is not of faith and therefore cannot make any man righteous. It can only condemn, and it even would condemn God Himself if God came lowly, not recognized in His Glory. According to scripture, when this fact was witnessed in heaven by the events on earth pertaining to the crucifixion of God's Christ, war in heaven broke out and Satan was cast out of his high seat of power and a New order took control in heaven with the Christ now seated at the right hand of God. Mercy and understanding is now the measure of righteousness, all seen through empathy. Only now is any such triune complete in the witness thereof.

kind of off topic here…but do you notice how the stories and characters you describe above in the bible sound very much like this high drama Soap show? Like Days of our Divine.

Its also rather a coincidence that a lot of other gods - considered now to be myths - have extremely similar drama? (of jealousy, fighting, warring, sex, etc??) Consider

I was once talking to a psychologist who had recently published a paper, detailing to the correlation between repetitive jobs (like factory/assembly line workers), and the compulsion of those who thrive on drama. The paper highlighted a few patients stories who sought marriage counseling, described love triangles, feuds and almost created their own drama. The paper hypothesized that the drama satisfied the need for excitement, lacking from their repetitive jobs. Perhaps those goat herders were just looking for a way to fight off the boredom??

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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06-12-2013, 06:48 PM
RE: We can't judge god by our standards.
(06-12-2013 06:26 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(06-12-2013 06:21 PM)djkamilo Wrote:  Nestorian I see. As a theologian you get an F for butchering the old testament. As an apologists you are sitting on a bunch of assertions and presupositions that 99% of the people of this forum hold. Work on those and come back to make your pitch.
I do not know who Nestor is. I did not butcher anything. I am simply re-stating what scripture reports.

It's actually Marcion (sorry, I get the "heretics" mixed up), and he held your view in the 2nd century with a few distinctions. Look him up. In short your view ended up not making the cut of christian "orthodoxy" and considered anathema by the 4th century.

As for re-stating what scripture reports, it depends on what you consider "scripture". If you consider the whole bible as we have today "scripture", sorry you're not reporting what it says. If you consider the marcionite canon (which consisted of the pauline epistles and parts of luke), you might have something going for you.

Even still the presupossitions you make are faulty with the atheists/agnostics of this forum, because you're making a bunch of assertions based on christian documents that very few here will find reliable.

Good luck

“The reason people use a crucifix against vampires is because vampires are allergic to bullshit.” ― Richard Pryor
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