We can't judge god by our standards.

[WitchSabrina]

(06-12-2013 05:50 PM)alpha male Wrote:  As Sabrina is fond of mockery, I'm fond of intentional mixed metaphors.

LMAO


It could be a sad statement about me that I actually get "Rocket surgery".
Your mileage may vary....

[childeye]

(06-12-2013 06:40 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  kind of off topic here…but do you notice how the stories and characters you describe above in the bible sound very much like this high drama Soap show? Like Days of our Divine.

LOL. Indeed it is.

Quote:Its also rather a coincidence that a lot of other gods - considered now to be myths - have extremely similar drama? (of jealousy, fighting, warring, sex, etc??)

I was once talking to a psychologist who had recently published a paper, detailing to the correlation between repetitive jobs (like factory/assembly line workers), and the compulsion of those who thrive on drama. The paper highlighted a few patients stories who sought marriage counseling, described love triangles, feuds and almost created their own drama. The paper hypothesized that the drama satisfied the need for excitement, lacking from their repetitive jobs.

Ahh yes. The human condition; the compulsive desire to be loved, and also to love. The pride of mankind and the beliefs that foster our pride. The search for fulfillment when lust and contentment can never abide together. Did not the Beatles sing How can you laugh when you know I'm down? Another verse should have said, how dare you be down in the midst of my happiness.

I cannot say whether the theory you speak of is true or false or where in between it falls strictly pertaining to what a person does for a living. I would submit this can only be measured in comparison to others and what they do and therefore has everything to do with pride. I do know for certain that some people are thankful and will rejoice over a single crust of bread. While others are angry and vexed over a small scratch in their new Porsche. Who are the rich and who are the poor is a matter of perspective. I think fundamentally we all seek to be happy. It makes perfect sense that one's outlook of his or her job would factor into their sense of fulfillment. It doesn't necessarily make you who you are.

[WitchSabrina]

(06-12-2013 05:14 PM)alpha male Wrote:  

(06-12-2013 04:02 PM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  What's a god?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/god?s=t
1. the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe.

2. the Supreme Being considered with reference to a particular attribute: the God of Islam.

3. ( lowercase ) one of several deities, especially a male deity, presiding over some portion of worldly affairs.

4. ( often lowercase ) a supreme being according to some particular conception: the god of mercy.

5. Christian Science. the Supreme Being, understood as Life, Truth, love, Mind, Soul, Spirit, Principle.

If you truly do believe in god I'm sure you can do better.......... no?
(and I'm not trying to set you up for failure or some shit......I'm genuinely asking you)

[Cardinal Smurf]

I'm conflicted about this thread. While it is filled with lots of useful information, I can't shake the feeling that it has not answered the OP's question or issue to her satisfaction.

Cathym112, how do you feel about how this thread has gone?

[childeye]

(06-12-2013 06:48 PM)djkamilo Wrote:  

(06-12-2013 06:26 PM)childeye Wrote:  I do not know who Nestor is. I did not butcher anything. I am simply re-stating what scripture reports.

It's actually Marcion (sorry, I get the "heretics" mixed up), and he held your view in the 2nd century with a few distinctions. Look him up. In short your view ended up not making the cut of christian "orthodoxy" and considered anathema by the 4th century.

As for re-stating what scripture reports, it depends on what you consider "scripture". If you consider the whole bible as we have today "scripture", sorry you're not reporting what it says. If you consider the marcionite canon (which consisted of the pauline epistles and parts of luke), you might have something going for you.

Even still the presupossitions you make are faulty with the atheists/agnostics of this forum, because you're making a bunch of assertions based on christian documents that very few here will find reliable.

Good luck

Thanks for your post. Yes it matters what we are referring to when we use the term scripture, but purely for the sake of clarity. I am referring to what we call the bible as a whole, both Old and New Testament. But I am not excluding there are other writings that may not be included in the bible that are viable. For my purposes it does not matter. To me what is morally true is self evident.

I do not know of Marcion. But I would not be surprised he would be called a heretic by those who in their ignorance subvert the simple moral Truth for the sake of religion. This in fact is why all the apostles were killed and persecuted for doing. Preaching a spiritual Truth that is. Hence there exists a spiritual enemy to those who preach the Truth. For scripture says this enemy would hold captive the minds of men through lies.

[djkamilo]

(06-12-2013 07:39 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  I'm conflicted about this thread. While it is filled with lots of useful information, I can't shake the feeling that it has not answered the OP's question or issue to her satisfaction.

Lol, I just sort of jumped in into the convo.

From what I know from apologists, the reason we can't judge god based on our standards is because we are supposedly fallen (and depraved if you are a calvinist) and because god by definition sits on a different vantage point in which he can technically know the ultimate consequence to his actions or lack thereof.

The first reason is fallacious because it assumes 'original sin' to be true. And the second falls with the first because if there is no original sin that makes us naturally morally skewed then the atrocities comitted, commanded or ignored by god are rightfully so called evil by a reasonable person.

[Cathym112]

(06-12-2013 07:39 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  I'm conflicted about this thread. While it is filled with lots of useful information, I can't shake the feeling that it has not answered the OP's question or issue to her satisfaction.

Cathym112, how do you feel about how this thread has gone?

There a few gems in here. Sometime people have provided a better explanation than I had before, but I still don't understand why gods very human actions (emotions) are above judgment from those humans.

Also, I find it rather peculiar that people become really frustrated with me when i ask these questions. They can't fathom why I would spend my time trying to relate/understand/make sense of what is nonsense. I can't respond well and find the faults of something I don't understand. Which is why I pick it up, examine it, and try to figure out whats wrong with it and if I can fix it before I simply just throw it away.

[childeye]

As pertaining to this thread. When someone says, we cannot judge God by our standards, they are simply stating that the ignorant are handicapped after some manner. To over dramatize this, it would be the same as a blind person judging paintings by artists.

[Cathym112]

Djkamilo - meh…thats one reason it is fallacious. Here are more:

(06-12-2013 07:47 PM)djkamilo Wrote:  From what I know from apologists, the reason we can't judge god based on our standards is because we are supposedly fallen (and depraved if you are a calvinist) and because god by definition sits on a different vantage point in which he can technically know the ultimate consequence to his actions or lack thereof.

The first reason is fallacious because it assumes 'original sin' to be true. And the second falls with the first because if there is no original sin that makes us naturally morally skewed then the atrocities comitted, commanded or ignored by god are rightfully so called evil by a reasonable person.

(28-11-2013 06:10 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  The other thing that gets me is that if we can't understand anything about the mind of god, then what the fuck was the tree of knowledge about? We all get sentenced to hell for something that didn't really give us what he said it would?

We got ripped off big time. That's fucked up.

(28-11-2013 06:25 PM)Julius Wrote:  Exactly! Genisis 3:21 states:

21 The Lord God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. 22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” 23 So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side[e] of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.

The quote can be found here: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?sea...ersion=NIV

[childeye]

(06-12-2013 07:47 PM)djkamilo Wrote:  

(06-12-2013 07:39 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  I'm conflicted about this thread. While it is filled with lots of useful information, I can't shake the feeling that it has not answered the OP's question or issue to her satisfaction.

Lol, I just sort of jumped in into the convo.

From what I know from apologists, the reason we can't judge god based on our standards is because we are supposedly fallen (and depraved if you are a calvinist) and because god by definition sits on a different vantage point in which he can technically know the ultimate consequence to his actions or lack thereof.

The first reason is fallacious because it assumes 'original sin' to be true. And the second falls with the first because if there is no original sin that makes us naturally morally skewed then the atrocities comitted, commanded or ignored by god are rightfully so called evil by a reasonable person.

I agree with your fallen statement according to those you identified as apologists. However, it cannot logically be fallacious simply by assuming original sin to be true. The whole topic is already speculation to begin with.