We can't judge god by our standards.
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 3 Votes - 3 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
28-11-2013, 06:59 PM
RE: We can't judge god by our standards.
(28-11-2013 06:53 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  God by definition, even if you don't believe in Him can't do anything wrong or unbenevolent.

Why do you think this?

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-11-2013, 07:02 PM
RE: We can't judge god by our standards.
(28-11-2013 06:59 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  
(28-11-2013 06:53 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  God by definition, even if you don't believe in Him can't do anything wrong or unbenevolent.

Why do you think this?

Well by definition with belief as not an issue God can't be unbenevolent.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-11-2013, 07:12 PM
RE: We can't judge god by our standards.
(28-11-2013 07:02 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  
(28-11-2013 06:59 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Why do you think this?

Well by definition with belief as not an issue God can't be unbenevolent.

That is by your incoherent, contradictory definition. And is entirely without evidence. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-11-2013, 07:12 PM
RE: We can't judge god by our standards.
(28-11-2013 07:02 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  
(28-11-2013 06:59 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Why do you think this?

Well by definition with belief as not an issue God can't be unbenevolent.

I don't understand your answer. Why can't god be unbenevolent?

Edit: let's lose the double negatives. Why is god benevolent?

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-11-2013, 07:20 PM
RE: We can't judge god by our standards.
(28-11-2013 07:12 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  
(28-11-2013 07:02 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  Well by definition with belief as not an issue God can't be unbenevolent.

I don't understand your answer. Why can't god be unbenevolent?
because god is perfect and moral in every case. If he kills no, murders the entire world he is not evil as we would see it. He is good. Get it?Tongue He transcends all moral values so he does whatever the fuck he wants. This is why I can't stand people saying they get morals from god. There is no standard of what is good or evil because god is truly apathetic.

"I don't have to have faith, I have experience." Joseph Campbell
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-11-2013, 07:43 PM
RE: We can't judge god by our standards.
Interesting read. ^_^

(28-11-2013 04:50 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  You can't judge god by our standards. Why not?

Because if you judge god by modern moral standards, it quickly becomes apparent that he's fake....and an ass hole.

THIS USER IS NO LONGER ACTIVE. THANK YOU, AND HAVE A GREAT DAY! http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...a-few-days
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Cephalotus's post
28-11-2013, 07:45 PM
RE: We can't judge god by our standards.
(28-11-2013 07:12 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  I don't understand your answer. Why can't god be unbenevolent?

Because goodness and rightness are defined with reference to Yahweh. Whatever Yahweh does is--by definition--good, right and just. That is how Orthodox Jews and those in the Reformed tradition (i.e. Calvinists) view Yahweh.

Reltzik and Sporehux are correct. The idea of man sitting in judgement of Yahweh is absurd to Orthodox Jews and most Christians (especially those in the Reformed tradition). Morality was created by Yahweh for humans. Yahweh's legislation of morality is not an act of self-restriction--He necessaily retains his omnipotence. Yahweh is an Ancient Israelite father: he is the head of the family and what he says goes. Father may appear brutal to the children but that is because the children are ignorant. Yahweh runs a strict, disciplinarian "household" and the idea of answering back to Yahweh is as impudent as a child questioning his father.

There is one additional argument that hasn't been referenced: the argument from moral skepticism.

The argument from moral skepticism is the idea that in the absence of a deity there is no such thing as objective moral truth. In the absence of objective moral truth any argument that Yahweh is immoral is at best subjective and emotive and at worst incoherent.

Also, from a Reformed theological perspective our moral intuitions and reason are corrupt and can't be relied upon. Humans are in a Fallen condition and it is to be expected that our moral intuitions and our reason will lead us astray, into the idea that Yahweh is immoral.

Humans were made in he image of God but that is now irrelevant because of the Fall. That is a fundamental point of all Christianities and an especially important point for the Reformed tradition.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Chippy's post
28-11-2013, 07:50 PM
RE: We can't judge god by our standards.
(28-11-2013 07:20 PM)grizzlysnake Wrote:  This is why I can't stand people saying they get morals from god. There is no standard of what is good or evil because god is truly apathetic.

When Jews and Christians say they get their morality from God they mean they get it from the imperative portions of scripture not from the narratives about Yahweh's behaviour. Those narratives are there as examples of what happens when you disobey Yahweh not as exemplars to be modeled. Yahweh is most definitely not "apathetic". All of the commands in the OT--including those in Leviticus--are observed by Orthodox Jews (that is why they grow their hair as they do).
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-11-2013, 07:55 PM
RE: We can't judge god by our standards.
(28-11-2013 07:12 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Edit: let's lose the double negatives. Why is god benevolent?

Because He created the notion of benevolence and it is whatever He decides it is. Yahweh is the measure why which all other measures of the good, the right and the just are determined. In the absence of Yahweh the notion of benevolence is just a product of human subjectivity and emotion. All value comes from Yahweh and there is no value outside of Yahweh. That is what Orthodox Jews and many Protestants believe.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-11-2013, 07:56 PM
RE: We can't judge god by our standards.
GOD The invisible child abuser who you can never call the cops on.

But he loves you unconditionally, Unless you do one of hundreds of things he doesn't like and then HE FUCKING HATES YOUR GUTS , and will torture you for all eternity.

[Image: child-abuse.jpg]

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: