"We had to come from somewhere."
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16-12-2013, 09:57 AM
RE: "We had to come from somewhere."
Quote:....Ok, so the big bang theory basically says that there was a singularity where all matter was on top of itself. . .

OK....from when came the matter that was on top of itself?

"People don't go to heaven when they die; they're taken to a special room and burned!" Evil_monster
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16-12-2013, 10:13 AM
RE: "We had to come from somewhere."
(16-12-2013 12:13 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(15-12-2013 12:51 PM)Alla Wrote:  I do not organize my life around the book/books.

"Just believe"? "just believe" is not the reason for actions.
I never claimed this.
I never act if I have just mere belief in something.
I have mere belief that there are many big bangs. So what? Do I do something with that belief? Answer is NO.
I may stop believing in this. It will not change a thing.
So, my life is not organized around my mere believes.


The point being, that you believe fantastic things on terrible or no evidence. You suck at determining truth from falsehood, at distinguishing fantasy from reality. Your belief in many big bangs seems harmless, but it is unsubstantiated belief nonetheless. If you're that credulous and inane, then it is easy to imagine how you could take up other far more harmful beliefs (like the need to murder witches), because you suck at telling fantasy from reality. That is the problem. You suffer from a severe lack of critical thinking and logic. You have crazy unjustified beliefs, and there is nothing preventing you from acquiring harmful unjustified beliefs and acting on them; that is what makes you (and others who think like you) so dangerous and scary.
I think it is crazy to believe that there is only one big bang.
I also think it is crazy to believe that there is only one god.

English is not my native language.
that awkward moment between the Premortal Existence and your Resurrection
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16-12-2013, 11:14 AM
RE: "We had to come from somewhere."
(16-12-2013 09:57 AM)RaisdCath Wrote:  
Quote:....Ok, so the big bang theory basically says that there was a singularity where all matter was on top of itself. . .

OK....from when came the matter that was on top of itself?
That sounds like a rhetorical question and, if that's how you intended it, I agreed with you in the post that you quoted from (on the first page). I tend to think the singularity and the big bang were not the first thing in existence.

That said, however, there seem to be 2 logical possibilities. 1) At one time something actually came from nothing and it started everything else in motion. 2) Time itself has no beginning. (I'm not referring to time within this universe specifically, but time anywhere ever.) To me, the second one seems completely impossible and maybe it's just my limited human brain. But the idea that something, even time itself, always existed just doesn't seem possible to me. How can anything not have a beginning. How can time or anything else go back infinitely with no actual beginning. So, while number 1 is also difficult to swallow - almost equally so - it at least seems more likely to me. And, if it is true, then the singularity or the big bang itself are candidates for the something coming from nothing.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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16-12-2013, 11:52 AM
RE: "We had to come from somewhere."
(16-12-2013 10:13 AM)Alla Wrote:  I think it is crazy to believe that there is only one big bang.
I also think it is crazy to believe that there is only one god.

But WHY? That is the entire god-damn point Alla, WHY? What you think isn't nearly as important as WHY you think that way.

I don't care that you think a singular big bang is crazy. WHY do you think multiple big bangs is more plausible? Because it's the WHY that should be able to convince other people to adopt your point of view if your reasoning is sound. It could sound crazy, it might even be crazy, but if you have enough evidence and sound reasoning then others can't help but find it compelling.

It's because of the WHY that I find ideas like evolution compelling, and others like the existence of the super natural to be empty assertions. So until you can convince us of the soundness of your WHY, we'll simply be left concluding that your reasons and evidence are not sound, and thus your positions and opinions are not reasonable.

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16-12-2013, 12:01 PM
RE: "We had to come from somewhere."
(16-12-2013 10:13 AM)Alla Wrote:  I think it is crazy to believe that there is only one big bang.
I also think it is crazy to believe that there is only one god.

How many gods are there? What is your evidence for your answer?
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16-12-2013, 01:22 PM
RE: "We had to come from somewhere."
(16-12-2013 11:52 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(16-12-2013 10:13 AM)Alla Wrote:  I think it is crazy to believe that there is only one big bang.
I also think it is crazy to believe that there is only one god.
But WHY? That is the entire god-damn point Alla, WHY? What you think isn't nearly as important as WHY you think that way.
I don't care that you think a singular big bang is crazy. WHY do you think multiple big bangs is more plausible? Because it's the WHY that should be able to convince other people to adopt your point of view if your reasoning is sound. It could sound crazy, it might even be crazy, but if you have enough evidence and sound reasoning then others can't help but find it compelling.
Why? To believe in one Big Bang = to believe in absolute beginning and in absolute end. Do we have any evidence of such things as absolute beginning or absolute end? Answer: No.
Do we have proof of such thing as relative beginnings and relative ends? Answer: Yes.


(16-12-2013 11:52 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  It's because of the WHY that I find ideas like evolution compelling, and others like the existence of the super natural to be empty assertions. So until you can convince us of the soundness of your WHY, we'll simply be left concluding that your reasons and evidence are not sound, and thus your positions and opinions are not reasonable.
Convince me that there are such things as absolute beginning and absolute end and I will accept that I have no reason.
I know that there many relative beginnings and many relative ends. I don't know any example of absolute beginning and absolute end. Do you?

English is not my native language.
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16-12-2013, 01:36 PM
RE: "We had to come from somewhere."
(16-12-2013 12:01 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(16-12-2013 10:13 AM)Alla Wrote:  I think it is crazy to believe that there is only one big bang.
I also think it is crazy to believe that there is only one god.

How many gods are there?
I would tell you if I knew. Even if God reveled that number I don't think it would be very helpful.

(16-12-2013 12:01 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  What is your evidence for your answer?
evidence of what? that there are gods? or evidence of how many gods are there?

English is not my native language.
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16-12-2013, 02:58 PM
RE: "We had to come from somewhere."
(16-12-2013 01:36 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(16-12-2013 12:01 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  How many gods are there?
I would tell you if I knew. Even if God reveled that number I don't think it would be very helpful.

(16-12-2013 12:01 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  What is your evidence for your answer?
evidence of what? that there are gods? or evidence of how many gods are there?

Evidence of how many they are. Also, how do you know you can trust what your god says? How do you know he tells the truth?
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16-12-2013, 04:18 PM
RE: "We had to come from somewhere."
(16-12-2013 02:58 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(16-12-2013 01:36 PM)Alla Wrote:  I would tell you if I knew. Even if God reveled that number I don't think it would be very helpful.

evidence of what? that there are gods? or evidence of how many gods are there?

Evidence of how many they are.
I don't know how many. And it doesn't matter. They are not my gods.

(16-12-2013 02:58 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Also, how do you know you can trust what your god says? How do you know he tells the truth?
I do not know for sure about everything. But I do know for sure that
1) influence of the Holy Ghost is so convincing that it is not possible not to trust Him. I can't explain why.
2)there are things that God told me and later I had evidence that they were true. He never lied to me in personal revelations. That is why I have reason to trust God. When I catch Him at least on one lie then I won't have reason to trust Him at all.

English is not my native language.
that awkward moment between the Premortal Existence and your Resurrection
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16-12-2013, 05:16 PM
RE: "We had to come from somewhere."
(16-12-2013 04:18 PM)Alla Wrote:  I don't know how many. And it doesn't matter. They are not my gods.
If they are not "yours" why do you even believe they exist?

(16-12-2013 04:18 PM)Alla Wrote:  I do not know for sure about everything. But I do know for sure that
1) influence of the Holy Ghost is so convincing that it is not possible not to trust Him. I can't explain why.
How do you know this is a Holy Ghost you are being influenced by and not something else?

(16-12-2013 04:18 PM)Alla Wrote:  2)there are things that God told me and later I had evidence that they were true. He never lied to me in personal revelations. That is why I have reason to trust God. When I catch Him at least on one lie then I won't have reason to trust Him at all.

How do you know you are communicating with God and not simply yourself?

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy! -Brian's mum
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