"We had to come from somewhere."
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07-12-2013, 12:14 AM
RE: "We had to come from somewhere."
(06-12-2013 01:20 PM)Impulse Wrote:  Ok, so the big bang theory basically says that there was a singularity where all matter was on top of itself with infinite density from which the big bang occurred. Within the singularity, the laws of physics would have broken down such that everything in the universe resulting from the big bang would not have been directly caused by anything pre-big bang. Therefore, time and space (for this universe) are said (by some) to have started with the big bang.

Personally, I think it stands to reason that the singularity wasn't necessarily the first thing in existence anywhere, although many disagree with me. So, to the question, what existed before the big bang, I would say "we don't know" and I'm satisfied with that answer until more information comes along.

Ummm....sorry but big bang theory doesn't say anything like that. Big Bang theory basically says the universe was hotter and more dense in the past and has since expanded. It doesn't say anything about what banged or why it banged.

"Singularity" is just a made up term to act as a place holder for ignorance. If you believe in some primordial singularity exploding into the universe today....you are believing in a thing which has no scientific evidence whatsoever to support it. Your belief is simply a matter of faith.

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07-12-2013, 12:18 AM
RE: "We had to come from somewhere."
(06-12-2013 09:27 PM)Youkay Wrote:  And there is the quantum physical explanation as well, where matter can emerge from nothing.

But all that aside, why do we need to know everything, anyway? People's mental capacity and potential is limited, therefore:
1) we can not expect to know everything
2) even if knowledge is present, we can not expect to understand everything

We always point to science in our hopes to gain wisdom and knowledge. But most topics in science are controversial. Now, basic scientific knowledge can not be argued against because of the immense evidence backing them up, and can be accepted as true knowledge. But for the rest, we need to learn how to be open minded and hypothetical. Being biased towards a certain point of view is perfectly fine, that is what scientists do as well. But people shouldn't assume to have or to seek absolute knowledge in complicated questions like this.

Sorry but you are wrong. Quantum physics does not allow for the emergence of matter from nothing. Quantum physics allows for the emergence of matter from the framework in which quantum physics operates.

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07-12-2013, 12:55 AM
RE: "We had to come from somewhere."
You are welcome to take that up with Lawrence Krauss and many other experts in the field who support his proposed view.

It is completely besides the point that I was trying to make.

Fun "paradox": The higher the selection pressure, the slower evolution takes place.
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07-12-2013, 12:59 AM
RE: "We had to come from somewhere."
(07-12-2013 12:55 AM)Youkay Wrote:  You are welcome to take that up with Lawrence Krauss and many other experts in the field who support his proposed view.

It is completely besides the point that I was trying to make.

Lawrence Krauss decided to define nothing a little differently so he could sell books. His nothing is really something and that is the frameworks in which quantum mechanics operates.

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07-12-2013, 01:03 AM
RE: "We had to come from somewhere."
(06-12-2013 01:09 PM)Dom Wrote:  God had indigestion and farted...

[Image: 43622483.jpg]

If we're all made of the same atoms and energy the rest of the universe is comprised of, then we too are parts of the universe. This leads us to the entertainment which is debate. The best part is where the universe, having come into consciousness, cannot agree on how it came to be in the first place. Laughat
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07-12-2013, 01:10 AM
RE: "We had to come from somewhere."
(07-12-2013 12:59 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(07-12-2013 12:55 AM)Youkay Wrote:  You are welcome to take that up with Lawrence Krauss and many other experts in the field who support his proposed view.

It is completely besides the point that I was trying to make.

Lawrence Krauss decided to define nothing a little differently so he could sell books. His nothing is really something and that is the frameworks in which quantum mechanics operates.

You discredited yourself utterly with this one...

Just for the fun of it:
Define nothing. Let's compare your nothing with the nothing of Lawrence Krauss.

No dodging the question please.

Fun "paradox": The higher the selection pressure, the slower evolution takes place.
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07-12-2013, 01:47 AM (This post was last modified: 07-12-2013 01:53 AM by Heywood Jahblome.)
RE: "We had to come from somewhere."
(07-12-2013 01:10 AM)Youkay Wrote:  
(07-12-2013 12:59 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Lawrence Krauss decided to define nothing a little differently so he could sell books. His nothing is really something and that is the frameworks in which quantum mechanics operates.

You discredited yourself utterly with this one...

Just for the fun of it:
Define nothing. Let's compare your nothing with the nothing of Lawrence Krauss.

No dodging the question please.

Nothingness consists of no space, no time, no particles, no fields, no force, no laws of nature, no laws of physics, no logic, no mathematical entities, and no consciousness. Nothingness isn't anything....not even a noun. Nothingness is complete negation of existence.

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07-12-2013, 01:57 AM
RE: "We had to come from somewhere."
(06-12-2013 12:27 PM)Chrisinfp Wrote:  I was talking to a non Christian who innocently said he thought we had to come from somewhere- he asked me what was around before the Big Bang. I understand the basics of the Big Bang. But how do you answer the question of what happened to cause the Big Bang- What was before. ?

... I don't understand how the thoughts "We had to come from somewhere" and "What was before the big bang" go together. They just don't mesh together!

A single action is worth more than the words it takes to describe it.
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07-12-2013, 02:10 AM
RE: "We had to come from somewhere."
Nothing is specifically the lack of sauce in the universe from his holy noodliness.
I have proof.

If we're all made of the same atoms and energy the rest of the universe is comprised of, then we too are parts of the universe. This leads us to the entertainment which is debate. The best part is where the universe, having come into consciousness, cannot agree on how it came to be in the first place. Laughat
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07-12-2013, 02:11 AM
RE: "We had to come from somewhere."
(07-12-2013 01:47 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Nothingness consists of no space, no time, no particles, no fields, no force, no laws of nature, no laws of physics, no logic, no mathematical entities, and no consciousness. Nothingness isn't anything....not even a noun. Nothingness is complete negation of existence.

Your definition coincides with that of Lawrance Krauss' in

- no space
- no time
- no particles
- no fields
- no force
- no laws of nature/no laws of physics/mathematical entities
- opposite of something/existence

Krauss did not see it necessary to say nothingness is no logic and no consciousness. Also, he didn't claim that nothingness isn't even a noun/word. That's solely your ridiculous claim right now...

Fun "paradox": The higher the selection pressure, the slower evolution takes place.
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