"We had to come from somewhere."
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09-12-2013, 03:20 AM
RE: "We had to come from somewhere."
(09-12-2013 03:13 AM)Adenosis Wrote:  
(09-12-2013 02:54 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I don't have a problem with anything you've said in this thread. My problem is with people who claim a "singularity" is an answer.....it isn't any more answer than "God dunnit" or "God works in mysterious ways", etc. Why is that when scientist admit they don't have an answer using place holders of ignorance such as "Singularity" they get a pass.....but when religious people use such place holders of ignorance....they get criticized for not having an explanation?

The presupposition that god exists is required to make any sense of "god dunnit" and "god works in mysterious ways".

Singularities, dark energy, and dark matter are all tied in with observations.

I can see your point. My belief in God is tied to observations of the natural world so maybe that is why I am not easily offended when some "explains" something by saying "God works in mysterious ways".

Vosur, Anjele, Hanoff.....have you learned nothing in my absence?
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09-12-2013, 12:30 PM
RE: "We had to come from somewhere."
Heywood,

Scientists readily admit they don't have all the answers. The singularity is an idea put forth to attempt to explain that which we don't have complete knowledge about - that's why it's part of the big bang theory. With this idea, scientist then have something that they can use as a reference point when making observations and testing. The theory is then discarded, modified, or accepted according to scientific findings. With theists, "God" is the explanation. It's accepted outright as the final answer with no further testing or evaluation. It's not the same in the least.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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09-12-2013, 12:39 PM
RE: "We had to come from somewhere."
(09-12-2013 03:20 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(09-12-2013 03:13 AM)Adenosis Wrote:  The presupposition that god exists is required to make any sense of "god dunnit" and "god works in mysterious ways".

Singularities, dark energy, and dark matter are all tied in with observations.

I can see your point. My belief in God is tied to PRESUPPOSED SPECULATIONS ABOUT the natural world so maybe that is why I am not easily offended when some "explains" something by saying "God works in mysterious ways".

fixed that for ya.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


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09-12-2013, 12:43 PM
RE: "We had to come from somewhere."
(06-12-2013 12:27 PM)Chrisinfp Wrote:  I was talking to a non Christian who innocently said he thought we had to come from somewhere- he asked me what was around before the Big Bang. I understand the basics of the Big Bang. But how do you answer the question of what happened to cause the Big Bang- What was before. ?

"Big Bang" doesn't propose that there was nothing and suddenly this explosion of everything happened out of nothing. From WIKI (which of course is not really any sort of definitive source):

"The Big Bang theory is the prevailing cosmological model that describes the early development of the Universe.[1] According to the theory, the Big Bang occurred approximately 13.798 ± 0.037 billion years ago,[2][3][4][5][6][7] which is thus considered the age of the universe.[8][9][10][11] At this time, the Universe was in an extremely hot and dense state and began expanding rapidly."

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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09-12-2013, 12:43 PM
RE: "We had to come from somewhere."
(09-12-2013 03:20 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(09-12-2013 03:13 AM)Adenosis Wrote:  The presupposition that god exists is required to make any sense of "god dunnit" and "god works in mysterious ways".

Singularities, dark energy, and dark matter are all tied in with observations.

I can see your point. My belief in God is tied to observations of the natural world so maybe that is why I am not easily offended when some "explains" something by saying "God works in mysterious ways".


You are SUCH a testimony for Christianity with that chosen screen name of yours. Just frickin impressive..... fo sho.Thumbsup

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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09-12-2013, 12:45 PM
RE: "We had to come from somewhere."
(09-12-2013 12:43 PM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  
(09-12-2013 03:20 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I can see your point. My belief in God is tied to observations of the natural world so maybe that is why I am not easily offended when some "explains" something by saying "God works in mysterious ways".


You are SUCH a testimony for Christianity with that chosen screen name of yours. Just frickin impressive..... fo sho.Thumbsup

IIRC he claims to be some sort of vague non-xtard "theist". Rolleyes

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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09-12-2013, 12:52 PM
RE: "We had to come from somewhere."
(09-12-2013 12:30 PM)Impulse Wrote:  Heywood,

Scientists readily admit they don't have all the answers. The singularity is an idea put forth to attempt to explain that which we don't have complete knowledge about - that's why it's part of the big bang theory. With this idea, scientist then have something that they can use as a reference point when making observations and testing. The theory is then discarded, modified, or accepted according to scientific findings. With theists, "God" is the explanation. It's accepted outright as the final answer with no further testing or evaluation. It's not the same in the least.

You're still making the error in believing singularity is an idea with explanatory power....it isn't. Its literally is the scientificky equivalent to "God works in mysterious ways".

Vosur, Anjele, Hanoff.....have you learned nothing in my absence?
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09-12-2013, 12:57 PM
RE: "We had to come from somewhere."
(06-12-2013 01:30 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  
(06-12-2013 01:09 PM)Dom Wrote:  God had indigestion and farted...

....um, no. That was me. Sorry. Popcorn does it to me every time. Blush
Unsure
Potatoes.
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I think in the end, I just feel like I'm a secular person who has a skeptical eye toward any extraordinary claim, carefully examining any extraordinary evidence before jumping to conclusions. ~ Eric ~ My friend ... who figured it out.
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09-12-2013, 01:03 PM
RE: "We had to come from somewhere."
(09-12-2013 12:52 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(09-12-2013 12:30 PM)Impulse Wrote:  Heywood,

Scientists readily admit they don't have all the answers. The singularity is an idea put forth to attempt to explain that which we don't have complete knowledge about - that's why it's part of the big bang theory. With this idea, scientist then have something that they can use as a reference point when making observations and testing. The theory is then discarded, modified, or accepted according to scientific findings. With theists, "God" is the explanation. It's accepted outright as the final answer with no further testing or evaluation. It's not the same in the least.

You're still making the error in believing singularity is an idea with explanatory power....it isn't. Its literally is the scientificky equivalent to "God works in mysterious ways".
No, it's just you making both of those mistakes. Theorizing is not explaining. Nor is "God works in mysterious ways".

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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09-12-2013, 01:06 PM
RE: "We had to come from somewhere."
(09-12-2013 12:30 PM)Impulse Wrote:  Heywood,

Scientists readily admit they don't have all the answers. The singularity is an idea put forth to attempt to explain that which we don't have complete knowledge about - that's why it's part of the big bang theory. With this idea, scientist then have something that they can use as a reference point when making observations and testing. The theory is then discarded, modified, or accepted according to scientific findings. With theists, "God" is the explanation. It's accepted outright as the final answer with no further testing or evaluation. It's not the same in the least.

You are unfortunately conflating definitions of "theory", and BJ is taking advantage of that to muddy the waters here. Try to be a little more precise, it's help head off his bullshit.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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