"We had to come from somewhere."
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12-12-2013, 07:01 PM
RE: "We had to come from somewhere."
(12-12-2013 06:11 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(12-12-2013 04:16 PM)Logisch Wrote:  Why do you believe that? (not being sarcastic, genuinely interested)
1)because I believe that God's works have no end and because I believe words of the Prophets that there are Gods many. They have to work, too.
2)let's forget about Gods. I ask myself a question:
infinite space and only one Big Bang. really?

Who says space is infinite? We can only see as far as the observable universe. If all we know is what we've learned thus far, then as far as we know, yes, really. I didn't ask about a god, I just asked why you believe there are infinite numbers of big bangs and infinite space, since we have no evidence of otherwise. Drinking Beverage

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12-12-2013, 09:04 PM
RE: "We had to come from somewhere."
Did you just ask a theist for evidence?

Check out my atheism blog. It's just a blog, no ads, no revenue, no gods.
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Atheism promotes critical thinking; theism promotes hypocritical thinking. -- Me
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12-12-2013, 09:42 PM
RE: "We had to come from somewhere."
(12-12-2013 09:04 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  Did you just ask a theist for evidence?

Yep. Primarily to understand how a person thinks, mostly. Not that I think they have any.

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13-12-2013, 01:11 PM
RE: "We had to come from somewhere."
(12-12-2013 07:01 PM)Logisch Wrote:  
(12-12-2013 06:11 PM)Alla Wrote:  1)because I believe that God's works have no end and because I believe words of the Prophets that there are Gods many. They have to work, too.
2)let's forget about Gods. I ask myself a question:
infinite space and only one Big Bang. really?

Who says space is infinite? We can only see as far as the observable universe. If all we know is what we've learned thus far, then as far as we know, yes, really. I didn't ask about a god, I just asked why you believe there are infinite numbers of big bangs and infinite space, since we have no evidence of otherwise. Drinking Beverage
one of the reasons why I believe that there are many of big bangs is because I believe that space is infinite. And I can not believe that our big bang is unique in infinite space. I also do not belief an absolutely empty space. I just can't believe this.
Belief doesn't need evidence.
When I say "infinite" amount of big bangs I mean that there are so many of them that humans do not even know this number

English is not my native language.
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13-12-2013, 05:17 PM
RE: "We had to come from somewhere."
(13-12-2013 01:11 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(12-12-2013 07:01 PM)Logisch Wrote:  Who says space is infinite? We can only see as far as the observable universe. If all we know is what we've learned thus far, then as far as we know, yes, really. I didn't ask about a god, I just asked why you believe there are infinite numbers of big bangs and infinite space, since we have no evidence of otherwise. Drinking Beverage
one of the reasons why I believe that there are many of big bangs is because I believe that space is infinite. And I can not believe that our big bang is unique in infinite space. I also do not belief an absolutely empty space. I just can't believe this.
Belief doesn't need evidence.
When I say "infinite" amount of big bangs I mean that there are so many of them that humans do not even know this number

To be rational, beliefs do require evidence. Not many people here are going to care what you believe if you don't have a reason.

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13-12-2013, 06:53 PM
RE: "We had to come from somewhere."
(13-12-2013 01:11 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(12-12-2013 07:01 PM)Logisch Wrote:  Who says space is infinite? We can only see as far as the observable universe. If all we know is what we've learned thus far, then as far as we know, yes, really. I didn't ask about a god, I just asked why you believe there are infinite numbers of big bangs and infinite space, since we have no evidence of otherwise. Drinking Beverage
one of the reasons why I believe that there are many of big bangs is because I believe that space is infinite. And I can not believe that our big bang is unique in infinite space. I also do not belief an absolutely empty space. I just can't believe this.
Belief doesn't need evidence.
When I say "infinite" amount of big bangs I mean that there are so many of them that humans do not even know this number

You do understand that the universe originated from a single point, right? This point, typically referred to as a singularity (a singular point of indescribably dense matter, think a black-hole for the gravitational kind).

I can say this by using the universe's continuing expansion as evidence: The universe is constantly expanding outward, if you back-track you wind that all matter, every space and time return to a singular point from which the expansion started.

For your idea of multiple big bangs to be correct, expansion would be far more erratic than it seems to be, with points expanding at greater rates than others, and there would be greater amounts of background radiation interspersed in pockets through the universe.

Unless you intend to stipulate that all the big bangs occurred in the same place at the same time, which I doubt works as an idea due to the 'big bang points' (singularities) most likely merging due to their space and time warping gravitational pull (due to their density).

Also, just because humans don't know the number of something, it doesn't mean it is infinite, it just means it is unknown. We can't exactly know the number of ants on Earth due to just how many of the bastards exist, does that mean they are infinite? No, that's silly.

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13-12-2013, 08:46 PM (This post was last modified: 13-12-2013 08:50 PM by Adenosis.)
RE: "We had to come from somewhere."
(13-12-2013 06:53 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  You do understand that the universe originated from a single point, right? This point, typically referred to as a singularity (a singular point of indescribably dense matter, think a black-hole for the gravitational kind).

I can say this by using the universe's continuing expansion as evidence: The universe is constantly expanding outward, if you back-track you wind that all matter, every space and time return to a singular point from which the expansion started.

As far as I know, it wasn't necessarily a single point. The universe at the moment of the big bang could have been spatially infinite. In fact if space is infinite now (which we don't know is the case), it must have been infinite to begin with (no matter how many times you double a number, it will never reach infinity). We know the universe was smaller in the past, but half of infinity is still infinity. If there is evidence that it was a single point though then I'd love to hear it.

(13-12-2013 06:53 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  For your idea of multiple big bangs to be correct, expansion would be far more erratic than it seems to be, with points expanding at greater rates than others, and there would be greater amounts of background radiation interspersed in pockets through the universe.

There is no telling what is beyond our cosmic horizon. There could be periods of inflation happening in the distant reaches of space all the time and we would never know, unless it happened within our cosmic horizon. The chance of inflation occurring would have to be incredibly small, like once every billion years per 100 billion light-year bubble.

There could also be dimensions independent of ours where big bangs are creating new universe all the time.

Neither has evidence for it, so there's no justification for believing it is that way, but both are possibilities.

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13-12-2013, 08:59 PM
RE: "We had to come from somewhere."
(13-12-2013 08:46 PM)Adenosis Wrote:  
(13-12-2013 06:53 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  You do understand that the universe originated from a single point, right? This point, typically referred to as a singularity (a singular point of indescribably dense matter, think a black-hole for the gravitational kind).

I can say this by using the universe's continuing expansion as evidence: The universe is constantly expanding outward, if you back-track you wind that all matter, every space and time return to a singular point from which the expansion started.

As far as I know, it wasn't necessarily a single point. The universe at the moment of the big bang could have been spatially infinite. We know it was more dense and therefore smaller in the past, but half of infinity is still infinity. If there is evidence that it was a single point though then I'd love to hear it.

(13-12-2013 06:53 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  For your idea of multiple big bangs to be correct, expansion would be far more erratic than it seems to be, with points expanding at greater rates than others, and there would be greater amounts of background radiation interspersed in pockets through the universe.

There is no telling what is beyond our cosmic horizon. There could be periods of inflation happening in the distant reaches of space all the time and we would never know, unless it happened within our cosmic horizon. The chance of inflation occurring would have to be incredibly small, like once every billion years per 100 billion light-year bubble.

There could also be dimensions independent of ours where big bangs are creating new universe all the time.

Neither has evidence for it, so there's no justification for believing it is that way, but both are possibilities.

This is why I don't do physics; just trying to present what I have picked up. Biology is so much easier to properly grasp, can't fully wrap my head around physics.

My primary understanding for the singular point comes from Stephen Hawking:
Quote:Up until the 1920s, everyone thought the universe was essentially static and unchanging in time. Then it was discovered that the universe was expanding. Distant galaxies were moving away from us. This meant they must have been closer together in the past. If we extrapolate back, we find we must have all been on top of each other about 15 billion years ago. This was the Big Bang, the beginning of the universe.

When I heard it, it made sense and after trying to check-up on it, it still made decent sense. His time estimate is be off, but the 'about' indicates a range of time close to that mark.

Mayhap you can throw some easy reading up fer me in my spare time.

I just realised how bad my grammar was in that post... shameful

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
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13-12-2013, 10:46 PM
RE: "We had to come from somewhere."
(13-12-2013 05:17 PM)Adenosis Wrote:  To be rational, beliefs do require evidence.

OK

(13-12-2013 05:17 PM)Adenosis Wrote:  Not many people here are going to care what you believe if you don't have a reason.
That is fine with me.

English is not my native language.
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13-12-2013, 10:55 PM
RE: "We had to come from somewhere."
(13-12-2013 06:53 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  You do understand that the universe originated from a single point, right? This point, typically referred to as a singularity (a singular point of indescribably dense matter, think a black-hole for the gravitational kind).
I can understand this. I can understand that every universe may originate from a single point.

(13-12-2013 06:53 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  I can say this by using the universe's continuing expansion as evidence: The universe is constantly expanding outward, if you back-track you wind that all matter, every space and time return to a singular point from which the expansion started.
OK. What makes you to believe that there was only one point?

(13-12-2013 06:53 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  For your idea of multiple big bangs to be correct, expansion would be far more erratic than it seems to be, with points expanding at greater rates than others, and there would be greater amounts of background radiation interspersed in pockets through the universe.
How do you know that?

(13-12-2013 06:53 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  Unless you intend to stipulate that all the big bangs occurred in the same place at the same time, which I doubt works as an idea due to the 'big bang points' (singularities) most likely merging due to their space and time warping gravitational pull (due to their density).
I don't stipulate this.

(13-12-2013 06:53 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  Also, just because humans don't know the number of something, it doesn't mean it is infinite, it just means it is unknown. We can't exactly know the number of ants on Earth due to just how many of the bastards exist, does that mean they are infinite? No, that's silly.
May be it is silly, but it is good analogy. Infinity is not reachable.
I am saying that number is not reachable for humans.
infinity=not reachable.

English is not my native language.
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