We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
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02-05-2016, 09:40 AM
RE: We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
(02-05-2016 09:01 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(02-05-2016 08:32 AM)Atothetheist Wrote:  Pretend I am stupid (not that hard to, tbh) and answer me this: what would be the alternative to objective morality if it's false. If something isn't objective... Isn't it subjective then?

No, if something isn’t objectively true, it would be objectively false, not subjective. For the same reason that though the answer for 1+1=4, is false, doesn’t mean the answer of 4 is subjective. If it were subjective that answer would be neither true or false.

No one is equating "not objectively true" with "subjective". Except you, so that makes it a straw man argument.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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02-05-2016, 09:42 AM
RE: We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
(02-05-2016 09:36 AM)Chas Wrote:  True of false is immaterial when you haven't even proven the existence of objective morality. Drinking Beverage

True or false is material, when distinguishing between subjective and objective claims. Subjective claims are neither true nor false. Objective claims are either true or false.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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02-05-2016, 09:42 AM
RE: We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
(02-05-2016 09:40 AM)Chas Wrote:  No one is equating "not objectively true" with "subjective". Except you, so that makes it a straw man argument.

Except they are when they claim that morality is subjective.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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02-05-2016, 09:46 AM
RE: We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
(02-05-2016 09:31 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(02-05-2016 09:09 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  Completely wrong. Subjective morality is all that exists. Flawed morality based on flawed reasoning, imperfect laws and systems of justice. This morality exists. It is visible and measurable. To deny it is to deny reality.

Subjective morality does not exist. In fact your appeals to flawed reasoning, flawed bases, are supportive of why this is true. Subjective views can neither be true or false.

To provide an example. If I believe an action is objectively immoral, if objective morality doesn’t exist, this belief doesn’t transform to a subjective one, it just becomes a false belief.
It’s also the same reason that someone who subscribe to moral realism, doesn’t become a moral subjectivist, becomes moral realism is false.

This is because you are using confused phrasing and connecting unconnected issues.

If you believe that an action is immoral, it does not affect whether that is objectively true or false. Please stop confusing the argument.

The question is whether or not morality is or is not objectively determined; leave the truth value of any moral claims out of it.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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02-05-2016, 09:48 AM
RE: We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
(02-05-2016 09:42 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(02-05-2016 09:40 AM)Chas Wrote:  No one is equating "not objectively true" with "subjective". Except you, so that makes it a straw man argument.

Except they are when they claim that morality is subjective.

No, you are conflating separate issues.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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02-05-2016, 09:49 AM
RE: We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
(02-05-2016 09:48 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(02-05-2016 09:42 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Except they are when they claim that morality is subjective.

No, you are conflating separate issues.

Nope same issue.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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02-05-2016, 10:02 AM
RE: We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
(02-05-2016 09:46 AM)Chas Wrote:  This is because you are using confused phrasing and connecting unconnected issues.

If you believe that an action is immoral, it does not affect whether that is objectively true or false. Please stop confusing the argument.

Objectivity presupposes the belief that an action is immoral.

Or on in other words for those who believe that morality is objective, the correctly stated belief here is that "an action is objectively immoral."

This is either true or false. If objective morality does not exist, than this belief is false, not subjective.

It would be incorrect to claim that the belief that an action is objectively immoral, is subjective,.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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02-05-2016, 10:03 AM
RE: We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
(02-05-2016 09:04 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(02-05-2016 08:42 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Views of the human world, in the "western world" is taught and ordered to kids as a objective right/wrong manner.

I'm not speaking exclusively of the western world. But the beliefs of Arab world, Indian world, etc.. and at least their predominant religious traditions, etc.. whose domain encompasses more than the western world.

And honestly attributing the belief in objective morality to religion, is giving more credit to religion than it deserves.

Even here it seems, many people who claim to subscribe to subjective morality, have a hard time claiming that morality in the end is merely a matter of likes and dislikes. Not to long ago, a number of you were suggesting that subjective is not appropriate label for morality.
All I was saying is what I'm saying... I'm not for one talking about other ranges of ways of youth development because I've heard contradicting things but also pockets of areas do have differences in the early education methods.

Not sure what you mean by crediting it to religion. Like at all, I don't know what that's supposedly about since I don't know what you mean by religion there even.

I wouldn't mind your illusionary concept if the premises would be establishable. You always instead want to just accept they are though and move on to bicker about something else other than craft an idea fully out.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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02-05-2016, 10:06 AM
RE: We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
(02-05-2016 09:49 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(02-05-2016 09:48 AM)Chas Wrote:  No, you are conflating separate issues.

Nope same issue.

What a great argument in response to Chas Dodgy

Fucking genius here.

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02-05-2016, 10:28 AM (This post was last modified: 02-05-2016 10:43 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
(02-05-2016 10:02 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(02-05-2016 09:46 AM)Chas Wrote:  This is because you are using confused phrasing and connecting unconnected issues.

If you believe that an action is immoral, it does not affect whether that is objectively true or false. Please stop confusing the argument.

Objectivity presupposes the belief that an action is immoral.

Or on in other words for those who believe that morality is objective, the correctly stated belief here is that "an action is objectively immoral."

This is either true or false. If objective morality does not exist, than this belief is false, not subjective.

It would be incorrect to claim that the belief that an action is objectively immoral, is subjective,.

You're SO full of CRAP.

One person may take a life in a specific circumstance as they (subjectively, really and truly) believed their life was in danger.
Another person could DO THE SAME THING for (subjectively another reason), who acted from another subjective motive.

Do you even have brain ?
There is no "objective" morality. Situations ARE ALWAYS subjectively judged by human brains. Too bad you don't have one that functions.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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