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02-05-2016, 12:18 PM
RE: We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
(02-05-2016 11:58 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(02-05-2016 11:40 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  http://www.philosophybasics.com/branch_m...alism.html



So at the very least you lack a belief in objective truth as well?

So sad.

Posting a link to an assertion without explaining why it is true is not helping you.

You asked for the meaning of objective morality, and that's exactly what I did with using the link I provided. Instead of acknowledging this, you decided to move the goal post of your original question.

If you're asking me to prove to you that objective morality is true, as I previously stated to others, I wouldn't be able to persuade you that this is the case. Blame it on epistemological differences.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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02-05-2016, 12:22 PM
RE: We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
(02-05-2016 12:09 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(02-05-2016 11:58 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  I never said I lacked a belief in "objective truth" .... THAT is NOT THE SUBJECT AT HAND ... your constant attempt to weasel out of this, just shows how bad your argument for "objective morality", or even a positing MECHANISM to judge an act "objectively".

There you go evasion number 2.

Do you believe that objective truth exists, even though what's true or not is judged subjectively?

So...... you can't answer the question at hand concerning MORALITY.
Lame attempt to change the subject.
The only way this question *might* be relevant, would be IF you would have explained HOW PRECISELY they are related, and the answer to one, supports an answer to another. You have not done that.

Answer the 3 questions, now ... or STFU.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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02-05-2016, 12:23 PM
RE: We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
(02-05-2016 12:22 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(02-05-2016 12:09 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  There you go evasion number 2.

Do you believe that objective truth exists, even though what's true or not is judged subjectively?

So...... you can't answer the question at hand concerning MORALITY.
Lame attempt to change the subject.
The only way this question *might* be relevant, would be IF you would have explained HOW PRECISELY they are related, and the answer to one, supports an answer to another. You have not done that.

Answer the 3 questions, now ... or STFU.

Answer my the question, now or you can STFU:

Do you believe that objective truth exists, even though what's true or not is judged subjectively?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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02-05-2016, 12:40 PM
RE: We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
(02-05-2016 12:23 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(02-05-2016 12:22 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  So...... you can't answer the question at hand concerning MORALITY.
Lame attempt to change the subject.
The only way this question *might* be relevant, would be IF you would have explained HOW PRECISELY they are related, and the answer to one, supports an answer to another. You have not done that.

Answer the 3 questions, now ... or STFU.

Answer my the question, now or you can STFU:

Do you believe that objective truth exists, even though what's true or not is judged subjectively?

That is not the subject of this debate, you slimy dishonest weasel.
But thanks for demonstrating to everyone that you cannot even begin
to :

1. prove to us that objective morality exists,
2. tell us how you have determined that.
3. then show us (with an example) an/the "objective" methodology by which human brains "objectively" judge an act to be in line with these objective moral standards.

(You question is hilarious, BTW. There are objective ways to know some things as truthful. There are no objective way to judge moral questions. So your little straw-man false analogy game is irrelevant, and you are committing this also :
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Category_mistake )
You have in no way demonstrated the answer to your irrelevant question has an bearing on the SUBJECT AT HAND.

This may assist you in getting some of your money back:
http://www.nbc.edu/financialaid/tuition-and-fees.php

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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02-05-2016, 12:46 PM
RE: We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
(02-05-2016 12:40 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
Quote:Answer my the question, now or you can STFU:

Do you believe that objective truth exists, even though what's true or not is judged subjectively?

That is not the subject of this debate, you slimy dishonest weasel.

It's a part of the subject of my arguments, as outlined in post 427.

Quote:1. prove to us that objective morality exists

I'm not able to convince you that objective morality exists. As I've repeated.

So again, the question I have for you, still waiting on a response, :

Do you believe that objective truth exists, even though what's true or not is judged subjectively?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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02-05-2016, 12:54 PM
RE: We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
(02-05-2016 12:46 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Do you believe that objective truth exists, even though what's true or not is judged subjectively?

I'll give you my answer. Truth is far more complex than your naive question indicates.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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02-05-2016, 01:03 PM
RE: We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
(02-05-2016 12:46 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(02-05-2016 12:40 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  That is not the subject of this debate, you slimy dishonest weasel.

It's a part of the subject of my arguments, as outlined in post 427.

Quote:1. prove to us that objective morality exists

I'm not able to convince you that objective morality exists. As I've repeated.

So again, the question I have for you, still waiting on a response, :

Do you believe that objective truth exists, even though what's true or not is judged subjectively?

So you have NO WAY to argue that objective morality actually exists, other than a lame assertion (link) to what *it might mean* to someone else, and you have no way to objectively determine what that is. You also have provided NO mechanism to objectively judge whether an action is in accordance with your mythical morality.
No one moved any goal posts, you dishonest troll. You were shown incompetent to support your assertions .... so you tried to change the subject.

You give us a definition (not a link) to what you mean by "truth",
and the methodology/mechanism by which you KNOW that it is what you say truth means, and admit you FAILED the morality question, and THEN we go on to the next one, not before.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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02-05-2016, 01:10 PM
RE: We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
I'm still waiting on TommyBoy to go back to this thread and tell me who I am, because he seemed to know me better than I do.

TommyBoy makes statements and claims he can't back up, then runs to another thread. Put up or shut up in this thread, TommyBoy and put up or concede your bullshit in the one I linked. Drinking Beverage

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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02-05-2016, 01:12 PM
RE: We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
(02-05-2016 12:54 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(02-05-2016 12:46 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Do you believe that objective truth exists, even though what's true or not is judged subjectively?

I'll give you my answer. Truth is far more complex than your naive question indicates.

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02-05-2016, 01:30 PM
RE: We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
(02-05-2016 09:01 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(02-05-2016 08:32 AM)Atothetheist Wrote:  Pretend I am stupid (not that hard to, tbh) and answer me this: what would be the alternative to objective morality if it's false. If something isn't objective... Isn't it subjective then?

No, if something isn’t objectively true, it would be objectively false, not subjective. For the same reason that though the answer for 1+1=4, is false, doesn’t mean the answer of 4 is subjective. If it were subjective that answer would be neither true or false.

If objective morality does not exist, it would just mean that people’s moral beliefs are false. it would be more accurate to say morality doesn’t exist, the same way we might say of free-will. That’s it’s an illusion, than to claim that morality is subjective. False objective claims, don’t become subjective ones, in light of being falsified.

Quote:Human perception isn't exactly always right. We "perceive" the world (on the whole) to be flat, only when we changed our perspective did we see the true answer.

No, only when we saw the true answer did we change perspective, though there are always hold outs, those who to this day still imagine the earth is flat.

Quote:Why?

Once you recognize the claim that morality is subjective is false, the why becomes more apparent.

Quote: And?

And..Full Stop.

Correct me if I am wrong, but your essential point is this:

1. Morality is either objectively true, or objectively false.
2. If Morality is objectively true, Morality exists.
3. If Morality is objectively false, Morality doesn't exist, and therefore can not be interpreted subjectively because it doesn't exist.

Am I right with this line of thinking?

Here is mine:
Morality: principles concerning the distinction between right and wrong or good and bad behavior.
1. Morality or the process of morality exists (we can objectively prove that the concept of morality exists because we can see that people use principles to distinguish right from wrong).
2. Morals vary from culture, people to people.
3. Because they vary from people to people, people's morals are subjective.

You are making the leap that because there is no objective morals, that therefore there is no morality. I don't think the two are necessarily tied together.

Can you prove to me why they are?

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