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02-05-2016, 06:26 PM
RE: We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
(02-05-2016 06:14 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Wrong. It's a false dichotomy, AS HAS BEEN POINTED out here.

No you have not.

(02-05-2016 06:14 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Yet, you claim truth is not subjective, though both A and B apply

Stop lying. I never said that, and YOU have never established the link between that question and morality.

(02-05-2016 06:14 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Yes. Those who subscribe to moral realism (objective morality), don't become moral subjectivist, if moral realism is false.

Yes they do, and are already anyway. There is no mechanism for a moral judgement OTHER than by a human brain, (and you have never proposed one).
There is no moral "realism" to subscribe to, in the first place. You priors do not obtain, and are false.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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02-05-2016, 06:27 PM
RE: We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
(02-05-2016 05:44 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(02-05-2016 05:39 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  All totally irrelevant. YOU failed to even begin making an argument for objective morality. You proved you were incapable of doing that.

Then you said it was a draw.

Then you said what was a draw was never an attempt.

Fuck


Nope, I began with an argument that subjective morality doesn't exist, regardless if objective morality exists or not. And not an arguments that objective morality exists.

I believe objective morality exists, but I didn't argue for it. I claimed repeatedly that I couldn't convince folks here who don't subscribe to moral realism, that this is true.

Then I interestingly found myself having a variety of atheists declare truth is subjective, which is always fun.
You also were making the claim of objective morality being a nearly or actual universal thought & view whole never responding to back it up or elaborate for another run at this topic.

Whilst accusing others of being evasive... Like a dick. I don't quite get the gain of this behavior.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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02-05-2016, 06:30 PM
RE: We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
(02-05-2016 06:21 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(02-05-2016 06:20 PM)Chas Wrote:  No, reality determines truth. Minds understand it or not.


Reality is not a being, it determines nothing. Determining requires an intentional agent.

Not sure if intentionally misunderstanding, or just really really stupid.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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02-05-2016, 06:38 PM
RE: We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
(02-05-2016 06:21 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(02-05-2016 06:20 PM)Chas Wrote:  No, reality determines truth. Minds understand it or not.


Reality is not a being, it determines nothing. Determining requires an intentional agent.

Wrong usage of "determines". You seem to lack the ability to understand words with multiple usages or shades of meaning, e.g. the lengths of the two sides of a rectangle determine its area, the percentage of the vote determines the winner.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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02-05-2016, 06:50 PM
RE: We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
This reminds me of the intentional boulder.
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02-05-2016, 06:51 PM
RE: We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
(02-05-2016 06:16 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(02-05-2016 06:10 PM)Chas Wrote:  I'm not sure you are accurately portraying their positions, but majorities do not determine truth. Facts do.


Minds determine truth. This dependency according to some means that truth is subjective.

Nope. Reality exists. Some minds grasp some parts of reality. They *determine* nothing. You actually have NO CLUE what we are talking about here, do you ?

The *grasping* can be more or less complete or accurate which is partially why the *grasping* is subjective. What individual minds grasp as "true" ABOUT Reality has nothing to do with Reality existing. Minds in no way "determine" Reality.

I think we should chip in and get you a dictionary.

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02-05-2016, 07:01 PM
We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
(02-05-2016 06:38 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(02-05-2016 06:21 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Reality is not a being, it determines nothing. Determining requires an intentional agent.

Wrong usage of "determines". You seem to lack the ability to understand words with multiple usages or shades of meaning, e.g. the lengths of the two sides of a rectangle determine its area, the percentage of the vote determines the winner.

Can a rock determine what a rectangle is? What the area of a rectangle is? Who the winners of the vote are?

Does a slice of pizza determine its own area, measure its sides? Or is it minds that do all the determining here?

If minds ceased to exist would there be any determining going on? Regardless of whichever meaning of the word you prefer.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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02-05-2016, 07:06 PM
We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
(02-05-2016 06:51 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(02-05-2016 06:16 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Minds determine truth. This dependency according to some means that truth is subjective.

Nope. Reality exists. Some minds grasp some parts of reality. They *determine* nothing. You actually have NO CLUE what we are talking about here, do you ?

The *grasping* can be more or less complete or accurate which is partially why the *grasping* is subjective. What individual minds grasp as "true" ABOUT Reality has nothing to do with Reality existing. Minds in no way "determine" Reality.

I think we should chip in and get you a dictionary.


If a mind independent reality exists we would not know it. The only reality you know is that mental abstraction in your head.

Judging that we're all trapped in our minds, I guess that would mean reality is subjective?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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02-05-2016, 07:18 PM
RE: We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
(02-05-2016 07:06 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(02-05-2016 06:51 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Nope. Reality exists. Some minds grasp some parts of reality. They *determine* nothing. You actually have NO CLUE what we are talking about here, do you ?

The *grasping* can be more or less complete or accurate which is partially why the *grasping* is subjective. What individual minds grasp as "true" ABOUT Reality has nothing to do with Reality existing. Minds in no way "determine" Reality.

I think we should chip in and get you a dictionary.


If a mind independent reality exists we would not know it. The only reality you know is that mental abstraction in your head.

Judging that we're all trapped in our minds, I guess that would mean reality is subjective?

Facepalm

No dear. When you grow up and go to a real school, you may learn there are ways to determine some things, in some ways, and they really are objective.

Nice try making this a argument for Solipsism.

Now go play with you neat little boxes, tying up everything with neat little red bows, and tell yourself how much better you are than those atheists.

Ta ta.

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02-05-2016, 07:24 PM
We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
(02-05-2016 07:18 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(02-05-2016 07:06 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  If a mind independent reality exists we would not know it. The only reality you know is that mental abstraction in your head.

Judging that we're all trapped in our minds, I guess that would mean reality is subjective?

Facepalm

No dear. When you grow up and go to a real school, you may learn there are ways to determine some things, in some ways, and they really are objective.

And it's your mind doing all the learning, all the determining, all the judging as to what is really objective or not.

According to you, such a dependency implies that it's all subjective.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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