We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
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03-05-2016, 10:28 AM
RE: We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
(03-05-2016 06:30 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  A view based entirely on sentient individuals "determining" that the state of water is caused by the temperature. We determined this.

What if we were wrong, that the state of water is caused by some set of currently unknown factors, and not the temperature, we might continue to say that it's determined by the temperature, but be wrong.

This determination is entirely built on a confidence in our mental faculties, in determining cause and effect.

Quote:Full Definition of determine determined determining

1
transitive verb

2
1
a : to fix conclusively or authoritatively <determine national policy>

b : to decide by judicial sentence <determine a plea>

c : to settle or decide by choice of alternatives or possibilities <trying to determine the best time to go>

d : resolve <she determined to do better>

3
2
a : to fix the form, position, or character of beforehand : ordain <two points determine a straight line>

b : to bring about as a result : regulate <demand determines the price>

4
3
a : to fix the boundaries of

b : to limit in extent or scope

c : to put or set an end to : terminate <determine an estate>

5
4
: to find out or come to a decision about by investigation, reasoning, or calculation <determine the answer to the problem> <determine a position at sea>

6
5
: to bring about the determination of <determine the fate of a cell>

7
intransitive verb

8
1
: to come to a decision

9
2
: to come to an end or become void

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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03-05-2016, 10:35 AM
RE: We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
(03-05-2016 05:50 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(02-05-2016 08:10 PM)Chas Wrote:  But we aren't trapped in our minds. We perceive reality, we get concurrence and confirmation from others' observations.

Reality is, therefore, objective.


We are trapped in our minds. The minds take in a variety on sensory inputs, to formulate an abstract picture of a supposed external reality.

We have to believe that are mental depictions, are accurate representation of that supposed external reality. That our minds have the capacity to decipher it and contemplate it fully. That reality outside breaks down to a series of propositions, and measurements describable mentally.

No reality exists outside of your mental representations, at least not for you. If one does exist outside of that mental depiction in your head, you wouldn't know it.

For some it seems the fact that we are all trapped in our heads, means than these mental depiction are subjective.

No, it does not mean that. We are not trapped in our minds, we are able to communicate with other minds and determine the concordance of our senses.

You seem to be slipping into solipsism.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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03-05-2016, 10:47 AM
RE: We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
(03-05-2016 10:35 AM)Chas Wrote:  ...
You seem to be slipping into solipsism.

... which is an improvement.

For a long time, he's been slopping into sillycism.

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03-05-2016, 05:03 PM
RE: We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
(21-04-2016 10:59 AM)kyrocketman Wrote:  Hello I have been a Rocket Scientist (aerospace engineer) for 30 years.
I have a pod-cast call God-Talk.com that I host with a medical doctor/theologian.
Dr. Andy was in a rock band and an emergency room doctor for many years as an atheist. He is now teaching medicine and is my pastor. We have plenty of atheist friends and listeners from all over the world.

We humbly request that one or more representatives of The Thinking Atheist come on our show to discuss different topics from your perspective.
We will give you 30 uninterrupted minutes on air to make your point, but you must be respectful (no bad language), and send us a simple outline of the point you wish to make (just so we can prepare for the show).
That is all, I truly hope I haven't offended anyone and I truly hope to hear from you.
Kindest Regards,
KYrocketman

Honestly I'd love to, but at present it's finals week and I'm busy. I'd love to answer written questions and give a discussion that way, but a block of time that long is simply not in the cards right now. Unless you'd like to do my design project, which I wouldn't trust one of those silly moving-parts people to do. Tongue
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03-05-2016, 05:07 PM
RE: We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
(03-05-2016 05:03 PM)natachan Wrote:  
(21-04-2016 10:59 AM)kyrocketman Wrote:  Hello I have been a Rocket Scientist (aerospace engineer) for 30 years.
I have a pod-cast call God-Talk.com that I host with a medical doctor/theologian.
Dr. Andy was in a rock band and an emergency room doctor for many years as an atheist. He is now teaching medicine and is my pastor. We have plenty of atheist friends and listeners from all over the world.

We humbly request that one or more representatives of The Thinking Atheist come on our show to discuss different topics from your perspective.
We will give you 30 uninterrupted minutes on air to make your point, but you must be respectful (no bad language), and send us a simple outline of the point you wish to make (just so we can prepare for the show).
That is all, I truly hope I haven't offended anyone and I truly hope to hear from you.
Kindest Regards,
KYrocketman

Honestly I'd love to, but at present it's finals week and I'm busy. I'd love to answer written questions and give a discussion that way, but a block of time that long is simply not in the cards right now. Unless you'd like to do my design project, which I wouldn't trust one of those silly moving-parts people to do. Tongue

Your time is better spent elsewhere. Trust me.
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04-05-2016, 04:34 AM
We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
(03-05-2016 10:35 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(03-05-2016 05:50 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  We are trapped in our minds. The minds take in a variety on sensory inputs, to formulate an abstract picture of a supposed external reality.

We have to believe that are mental depictions, are accurate representation of that supposed external reality. That our minds have the capacity to decipher it and contemplate it fully. That reality outside breaks down to a series of propositions, and measurements describable mentally.

No reality exists outside of your mental representations, at least not for you. If one does exist outside of that mental depiction in your head, you wouldn't know it.

For some it seems the fact that we are all trapped in our heads, means than these mental depiction are subjective.

No, it does not mean that. We are not trapped in our minds, we are able to communicate with other minds and determine the concordance of our senses.

You seem to be slipping into solipsism.


It's not solipsism. Solipsism requires me to believe that only my mind exists, I don't believe that. I'm stating an absolute fact, that we're trapped in our own minds. An analogy would be a man trapped in a prison cell, perceives the outside world behind the bars of the cell, the windows of the cell, etc.... This doesn't require him to believe that only what's behind his prison cell exists.

People here routinely remind me that I'm not a mind reader. That I can't know what goes on in other minds, only what goes on in mine. Even as you point out that other minds exists. So they don't seem entirely amiss of the point.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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04-05-2016, 04:38 AM
We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
(03-05-2016 10:28 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(03-05-2016 06:30 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  A view based entirely on sentient individuals "determining" that the state of water is caused by the temperature. We determined this.

What if we were wrong, that the state of water is caused by some set of currently unknown factors, and not the temperature, we might continue to say that it's determined by the temperature, but be wrong.

This determination is entirely built on a confidence in our mental faculties, in determining cause and effect.

Quote:Full Definition of determine determined determining

1
transitive verb

2
1
a : to fix conclusively or authoritatively <determine national policy>

b : to decide by judicial sentence <determine a plea>

c : to settle or decide by choice of alternatives or possibilities <trying to determine the best time to go>

d : resolve <she determined to do better>

3
2
a : to fix the form, position, or character of beforehand : ordain <two points determine a straight line>

b : to bring about as a result : regulate <demand determines the price>

4
3
a : to fix the boundaries of

b : to limit in extent or scope

c : to put or set an end to : terminate <determine an estate>

5
4
: to find out or come to a decision about by investigation, reasoning, or calculation <determine the answer to the problem> <determine a position at sea>

6
5
: to bring about the determination of <determine the fate of a cell>

7
intransitive verb

8
1
: to come to a decision

9
2
: to come to an end or become void


I'm just gonna concede the point on the determining thing, that given a particular definition of the term it can be applied to inanimate things.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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04-05-2016, 04:46 AM
RE: We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
Got as far as "representatives of thinking atheist," when the stupid brain goes "why ain't you bothering Seth with this nonsense?" Was there anything further?

(23-04-2016 07:13 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(22-04-2016 02:04 PM)cactus Wrote:  Come on, earmuffs, you know you want to Thumbsup

They think bad language is "disrespectful". There's no talking with these cunts.

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Never disappoints, this one.

Got as far as "representatives of thinking atheist," when the stupid brain goes "why ain't you bothering Seth with this nonsense?" Was there anything further?

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04-05-2016, 05:31 AM
RE: We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
Have they done the podcast yet?
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04-05-2016, 07:32 AM
RE: We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
(04-05-2016 04:34 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(03-05-2016 10:35 AM)Chas Wrote:  No, it does not mean that. We are not trapped in our minds, we are able to communicate with other minds and determine the concordance of our senses.

You seem to be slipping into solipsism.


It's not solipsism. Solipsism requires me to believe that only my mind exists, I don't believe that. I'm stating an absolute fact, that we're trapped in our own minds. An analogy would be a man trapped in a prison cell, perceives the outside world behind the bars of the cell, the windows of the cell, etc.... This doesn't require him to believe that only what's behind his prison cell exists.

People here routinely remind me that I'm not a mind reader. That I can't know what goes on in other minds, only what goes on in mine. Even as you point out that other minds exists. So they don't seem entirely amiss of the point.
Really that's an absolute fact to you. You have complete evidence or whatever layer of testimony to convince you away from the ideas of a universal consiousness; where we can connect to and transfer to it at some stage making us more than merely our own mind.

Well I've said it of the past, I guess you just know things clearly without much need for that old behavior of doubting and exploring.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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