We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
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03-09-2016, 12:39 AM (This post was last modified: 03-09-2016 12:51 AM by RocketSurgeon76.)
RE: We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
(02-09-2016 11:38 PM)Aliza Wrote:  To my pleasant surprise, I thought that the hosts were very fair and reasonable to you. I thought that you sounded like you were not edited in such a way that your message was distorted in any way. I also liked how they were more focused on finding common ground between your belief systems rather than trying to bash your belief system or badgering you to try to get you to adopt their views.

I find this hard to believe.

Their entire website drips with dishonesty. Among the people they brought on as guests included a pair of thoroughly-debunked Creationists, touting their PhDs as though they were still thinkers in that field, including "Professor Edgar H. Andrews", who was smashed in a debate in 1986 on the subject by none other than Richard Dawkins and John Maynard-Smith.

It's in multiple parts... here's the first one:




"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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03-09-2016, 12:56 AM
RE: We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
(03-09-2016 12:39 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(02-09-2016 11:38 PM)Aliza Wrote:  To my pleasant surprise, I thought that the hosts were very fair and reasonable to you. I thought that you sounded like you were not edited in such a way that your message was distorted in any way. I also liked how they were more focused on finding common ground between your belief systems rather than trying to bash your belief system or badgering you to try to get you to adopt their views.

I find this hard to believe.

Their entire website drips with dishonesty. Among the people they brought on as guests included a pair of thoroughly-debunked Creationists, touting their PhDs as though they were still thinkers in that field, including "Professor Edgar H. Andrews", who was smashed in a debate in 1986 on the subject by none other than Richard Dawkins and John Maynard-Smith.

It's in multiple parts... here's the first one:




I haven't viewed the video you linked, but I will tomorrow (when I'm more alert). I had already spot checked a few other podcasts. They're clearly rooted in the Christian camp. It's just that I think they were trying to be very courteous to their guest. What else can you ask for when you go onto a Christian show like that besides respect and a chance to voice your views without open hostility.
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03-09-2016, 03:07 AM
RE: We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
(03-09-2016 12:56 AM)Aliza Wrote:  I haven't viewed the video you linked, but I will tomorrow (when I'm more alert). I had already spot checked a few other podcasts. They're clearly rooted in the Christian camp. It's just that I think they were trying to be very courteous to their guest. What else can you ask for when you go onto a Christian show like that besides respect and a chance to voice your views without open hostility.

Yes, I'm pretty sure that God-Talk.com is going to be "rooted in the Christian camp". Laugh out load Wink

I certainly agree that I'm surprised that they were respectful, rather than openly hostile, but I suspect even then that their motives were selfish-- the entire point of those sorts of Creationists is that they give the appearance to their audience of being more reasonable than their opponents.

You see it all the time when Creationists debate scientists: the scientist will logically hand the Creationist his ass, but if you actually poll the audience, half of them remain convinced that the Creationist "made a lot of good points", or even won the debate. How? Because the Creationists are very good at the showmanship, and effectively "win" by charisma.

Had they been hostile and aggressive, they would not have been very successful at their goal of convincing their believing audience that they have the moral and intellectual upper hand. At that point, they can get away with asking ridiculous questions like "So you think your daddy is a monkey, eh?" without alienating said audience.

It is not just because they are Christians and/or Creationists that I say this about that camp; I have literally decades now of dealing with that sort of tactic, and one of the hallmarks I have learned to spot is the heavy emphasis on the degrees held by the people speaking and a willingness to misrepresent (or openly lie about, such as the "quote-mining" tactic) the claims of the scientists upon whose ideas they are casting derision, either by the group itself or the authorities they are citing.

I looked through the names/backgrounds of the other interviewees on that site, and found that pattern heavily represented. They are not "the Christian camp" at all, by the way-- they are representative of a particular brand of fundamentalism which is a small minority in Christian thinking, except for in the United States. Undecided

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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03-09-2016, 03:26 AM
RE: We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
Yay! Found the show! Clap

https://soundcloud.com/god-talk

Top linky/Pod-cast. Big Grin
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03-09-2016, 05:25 AM
RE: We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
(03-09-2016 03:07 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  [...] I certainly agree that I'm surprised that they were respectful, rather than openly hostile, but I suspect even then that their motives were selfish-- the entire point of those sorts of Creationists is that they give the appearance to their audience of being more reasonable than their opponents...

... How? Because the Creationists are very good at the showmanship, and effectively "win" by charisma. [...]

I'd describe their apparent "respect" for friendly atheists (whatever that means?) more in terms of their being smarmy (—excessively or unctuously flattering, insincere, or ingratiating).

And I agree that the more evangelically-minded a theist is, the more they represent themselves as archetypal models of sincerity, rationalism, and cordiality. William Lane Craig is a past master of this!

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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03-09-2016, 10:10 AM (This post was last modified: 03-09-2016 10:27 AM by DLJ.)
RE: We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
(03-09-2016 12:37 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
(03-09-2016 12:19 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Where can I go to hear this interview? I couldn't find it on the god-talk website.

Soundcloud

Thanks for that. I've listened to it now.

The only bits that were edited out were
a) a bit where Doug didn't immediately get my 'proof of alcohol' joke.
b) a bit in the middle when we talked over each other.
c) a bit at the end when Andy complimented me on my knowledge of philosophy and my coherenceness and me pointing out that I only knew a few basics and that I'd never done anything like this before - which, I think surprised them.

Sound quality wasn't great so some of my bits were inaudible but it didn't change things much.

They added the first two minutes of introduction and obviously the bit after they said goodbye.

... and I'm sure I don't need to explain to anyone here which parts of that summary were not quite right.

Big Grin

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03-09-2016, 11:04 AM
RE: We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
That was actually a more intellectual exchange than I expected. It's interesting that one of the hosts says he accepts evolution, and yet the site has a number of anti-evolution speakers. I may have to listen to those exchanges.

You took the high road on a few of your answers, not putting them "on the spot" with counter-questions in the way that they did you (not faulting them for that; it was the point of the show), when asking things like "why your particular tribal god?" and holding them to a serious answer.

You did really well. Smile

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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03-09-2016, 12:11 PM
RE: We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
Hug DLJ

Big Grin
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03-09-2016, 12:17 PM (This post was last modified: 03-09-2016 12:30 PM by Commonsensei.)
RE: We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
Nice job DJL.

I wonder when that one guy considered himself an atheists. I imagine as a teen or maybe a young kid. Simply because some of his conclusion don't sound like they came from study. They came from acceptance out of fear or misinformation.

I think perhaps if he ever considered himself an atheist he wasn't one because he saw the flaws in the logic. He was one because he didn't want to go to church or something like that. Maybe if you ever get another chance you could ask him about that.

I feel he maybe lying just to be relatable to you. "I used to think like you but then I saw the light and so can you. It's not to late."

Don't Live each day like it's your last. Live each day like you have 541 days after that one where every choice you make will have lasting implications to you and the world around you. ~ Tim Minchin
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03-09-2016, 12:55 PM
RE: We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
(03-09-2016 12:17 PM)Commonsensei Wrote:  Nice job DJL.

I wonder when that one guy considered himself an atheists. I imagine as a teen or maybe a young kid. Simply because some of his conclusion don't sound like they came from study. They came from acceptance out of fear or misinformation.

I think perhaps if he ever considered himself an atheist he wasn't one because he saw the flaws in the logic. He was one because he didn't want to go to church or something like that. Maybe if you ever get another chance you could ask him about that.

I feel he maybe lying just to be relatable to you. "I used to think like you but then I saw the light and so can you. It's not to late."

That's not an unreasonable supposition, given that they feature an interview with (or testimony by) a theology professor who sells an entire book based around the "I was an angry atheist" principle. It's literally in the title of the interview:

Dr. Holly Ordway: "Angry Atheist English professor, and athlete, turned to Christian, and now apologist and Theology professor"

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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