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02-05-2016, 01:33 PM (This post was last modified: 02-05-2016 01:41 PM by Tomasia.)
RE: We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
(02-05-2016 01:03 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  So you have NO WAY to argue that objective morality actually exists, other than a lame assertion (link) to what *it might mean* to someone else, and you have no way to objectively determine what that is.

I have no way to convince you to subjectively judge that objective morality exists.

Quote:You also have provided NO mechanism to objectively judge whether an action is in accordance with your mythical morality.

I'd argue that no moral problems require such mechanisms to solve.

Quote:You were shown incompetent to support your assertions .... so you tried to change the subject.

I outlined my argument several dozen posts ago, (post 427), and stated repeatedly that I cannot prove to someone such as yourself that objective morality exists. You clearly don't like that answer.

Quote:You give us a definition (not a link) to what you mean by "truth",
and the methodology/mechanism by which you KNOW that it is what you say truth means, and admit you FAILED the morality question, and THEN we go on to the next one, not before.

As post 427 suggested, the two were interrelated questions. Judging that you can't even answer the question as to whether you believe truth is objective or not, you can perhaps see why trying to convince you that morality is objective, is not possible, you're too entrenched, too walled off, too protective for that.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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02-05-2016, 01:41 PM
RE: We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
"I have no way to convince you to subjectively judge that objective morality exists. "

Holy fuck, that is moronic and contradictory. If morality is objective, you wouldn't need to "convince" someone how to "subjectively judge" it. You are LITERALLY saying that morality is subjective but refuse to acknowledge it!


The temperature of the water is 100°C (reading off of a thermometer). <-objective

The water (@100°C) isn't that hot when compared to the temperature of the surface of the sun. So it is still relatively cool. <-subjective

Tomasia:
"The temperature of the water is hot and I have no idea how to tell you to subjectively measure it as such. It's impossible."

Literally everyone else:
"Well, we could measure the temperature..."

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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02-05-2016, 01:42 PM
RE: We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
(02-05-2016 12:54 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(02-05-2016 12:46 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Do you believe that objective truth exists, even though what's true or not is judged subjectively?

I'll give you my answer. Truth is far more complex than your naive question indicates.

And it seems to me if that is your view regarding truth, that one can say that about morality as well, that it is far more complex than simply reducing it to objective or subjective.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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02-05-2016, 01:45 PM
RE: We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
(02-05-2016 01:42 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(02-05-2016 12:54 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I'll give you my answer. Truth is far more complex than your naive question indicates.

And it seems to me if that is your view regarding truth, that one can say that morality is far complex than simply reducing it to objective or subjective.

Shocking You don't understand...at all.

YOU assert that morality is simple by asserting that it is objective. By claiming this, you are LITERALLY saying that morality is black and white because there exists a set standard for morality under which things are only right/wrong, regardless of context.

If you acknowledge that context and perspective matters, but don't acknowledge that it is subjective in nature, YOU are directly contradicting yourself. Drinking Beverage

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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02-05-2016, 01:47 PM
RE: We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
(02-05-2016 01:42 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(02-05-2016 12:54 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I'll give you my answer. Truth is far more complex than your naive question indicates.

And it seems to me if that is your view regarding truth, that one can say that about morality as well, that it is far more complex than simply reducing it to objective or subjective.

It's not necessarily my view, but that is precisely what I am saying.

#sigh
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02-05-2016, 01:49 PM
RE: We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
(02-05-2016 01:33 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  I have no way to convince you to subjectively judge that objective morality exists.

Then why assert it does exist.

(02-05-2016 01:33 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  I'd argue that no moral problems require such mechanisms to solve.

You can't be THAT stupid. You must have some methodology in mind. Assertions with nothing else are not arguments.

(02-05-2016 01:33 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  I outlined my argument several dozen posts ago, (post 427), and stated repeatedly that I cannot prove to someone such as yourself that objective morality exists. You clearly don't like that answer.

You could at least try.

(02-05-2016 01:33 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  As post 427 suggested, the two were interrelated questions. Judging that you can't even answer the question as to whether you believe truth is objective or not, you can perhaps see why trying to convince you that morality is objective, is not possible, you're too entrenched, too walled off, too protective for that.

Completely disingenuous. I said I would, if you met the requirements of telling us what it is. It has NOTHING to do with "too whatever". I want a coherent definition, and objective mechanisms proposed to do what you imply with your OWN words. You have failed in every possible way to even begin to define what you mean, in both cases. There is no way to answer such drivel. But, as always, your Church Lady judgmental shit comes in, as always.

What are you doing here again ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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02-05-2016, 01:53 PM
RE: We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
(02-05-2016 01:45 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(02-05-2016 01:42 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  And it seems to me if that is your view regarding truth, that one can say that morality is far complex than simply reducing it to objective or subjective.

Shocking You don't understand...at all.

YOU assert that morality is simple by asserting that it is objective. By claiming this, you are LITERALLY saying that morality is black and white because there exists a set standard for morality under which things are only right/wrong, regardless of context.

If you acknowledge that context and perspective matters, but don't acknowledge that it is subjective in nature, YOU are directly contradicting yourself. Drinking Beverage

Every human brain assembles facts and standards for both truth and morality.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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02-05-2016, 01:55 PM
RE: We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
(02-05-2016 01:53 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(02-05-2016 01:45 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Shocking You don't understand...at all.

YOU assert that morality is simple by asserting that it is objective. By claiming this, you are LITERALLY saying that morality is black and white because there exists a set standard for morality under which things are only right/wrong, regardless of context.

If you acknowledge that context and perspective matters, but don't acknowledge that it is subjective in nature, YOU are directly contradicting yourself. Drinking Beverage

Every human brain assembles facts and standards for both truth and morality.

"Every human brain assembles facts and standards for both truth and morality."

aka, IT'S SUBJECTIVE (how many times are you going to directly contradict yourself? Consider )

This is also why you are being asked for YOUR definitions of these things (a task you continue to fail to do).



Also, you've never told me who I am. You were so confident you know who I am better than I do. When you going to tell me who I am? Drinking Beverage Still waiting.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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02-05-2016, 01:56 PM
RE: We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
(02-05-2016 01:49 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Completely disingenuous. I said I would, if you met the requirements of telling us what it is. It has NOTHING to do with "too whatever". I want a coherent definition, and objective mechanisms proposed to do what you imply with your OWN words.

So you want me to prove to you that objective truth exists? That I have define what truth means, and then demonstrate to you that it exists objectively?

You don't hold an affirmative position here in regards to truth or morality, that you would defend or support?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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02-05-2016, 01:58 PM
RE: We want to hear from you at God-Talk.com
(02-05-2016 01:55 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(02-05-2016 01:53 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Every human brain assembles facts and standards for both truth and morality.

"Every human brain assembles facts and standards for both truth and morality."

aka, IT'S SUBJECTIVE (how many times are you going to directly contradict yourself? Consider )

So truth and morality are subjective, because "every human brain assembles facts and standards for both truth and morality."?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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