Welcome to China.
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14-06-2013, 10:08 AM
RE: Welcome to China.
(14-06-2013 10:03 AM)HU.Junyuan Wrote:  
(14-06-2013 09:56 AM)Chas Wrote:  Equating a petition to a call for overthrow is dishonest. This is typical of your approach.
The logic behind the petition is rational thinking. Your government's response was fear-based protection of the status quo. Simple abuse of power that is the trademark of totalitarian governments.

In this democracy, we have the right to petition the government for the redress of grievances. You don't.

Ah, Chas, still you, hasn't change.

Fix the surveillance thing first. Mud on your face. Big disgrace.

By the way, IS THE PETITION LEGAL?

In China? I don't know. It should be, of course.

No, I have not changed. I am for freedom and I am against totalitarian governments.

Your government is not legitimate, it is forced on your people.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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14-06-2013, 10:21 AM
RE: Welcome to China.
(14-06-2013 10:08 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(14-06-2013 10:03 AM)HU.Junyuan Wrote:  Ah, Chas, still you, hasn't change.

Fix the surveillance thing first. Mud on your face. Big disgrace.

By the way, IS THE PETITION LEGAL?

In China? I don't know. It should be, of course.

No, I have not changed. I am for freedom and I am against totalitarian governments.

Your government is not legitimate, it is forced on your people.

Oh, you don't know.

Based on this practical way of reasoning,

well,

goodbye, and good night.

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14-06-2013, 10:26 AM
RE: Welcome to China.
Well, to be honest, it shouldn't matter if it is a "legal" petition or not. If it's not a valid one, like the one that circulated after the election where someone from nearly all 50 states signed saying they wanted (along with their individual state) to secede from the nation -- was ignored by the federal government. I'm sure the government didn't like it, but they didn't round everyone up and throw them in jail for signing it.

Who decides in your country the legality of a petition? What makes, in China, a petition (which amounts to a list of names of a piece of paper) illegal?

Don't misunderstand I know we have our own issues to fix like the surveillance thing -- that's been going forever (it's kinda why Nixon left office -- not that he did it, but that he covered it up) and many others that don't receive a lot of press but are probably nonetheless true.

But I have the right to pick up a blow-horn in Washington DC or across the street from the white house and shout my disfavor with the government.

What would happen if you picked up a blow horn and proclaimed your dissatisfaction with your government?


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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14-06-2013, 10:51 AM
RE: Welcome to China.
(14-06-2013 10:21 AM)HU.Junyuan Wrote:  
(14-06-2013 10:08 AM)Chas Wrote:  In China? I don't know. It should be, of course.

No, I have not changed. I am for freedom and I am against totalitarian governments.

Your government is not legitimate, it is forced on your people.

Oh, you don't know.

Based on this practical way of reasoning,

well,

goodbye, and good night.

There you go, slipping out the back door again.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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14-06-2013, 10:56 AM
RE: Welcome to China.
(14-06-2013 10:51 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(14-06-2013 10:21 AM)HU.Junyuan Wrote:  Oh, you don't know.

Based on this practical way of reasoning,

well,

goodbye, and good night.

There you go, slipping out the back door again.

Some Birds like their cages. So anyone still not convinced that Communism just replaces the concept of God with the state? It can do no wrong, evil is the fault of the people not the state, anyone who isn't in line is a heretic and deserves what they get. Ultimately it is sad that Hu has no idea what freedom is and can't understand censorship since it is all he has ever known and he refuses to peek outside his cage. He laughs when our governments screw up but never thinks about the fact that we can call our government on their bullshit but His government is perfect in all ways.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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14-06-2013, 10:57 AM (This post was last modified: 14-06-2013 11:07 AM by HU.Junyuan.)
RE: Welcome to China.
(14-06-2013 10:26 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Well, to be honest, it shouldn't matter if it is a "legal" petition or not. If it's not a valid one, like the one that circulated after the election where someone from nearly all 50 states signed saying they wanted (along with their individual state) to secede from the nation -- was ignored by the federal government. I'm sure the government didn't like it, but they didn't round everyone up and throw them in jail for signing it.

Who decides in your country the legality of a petition? What makes, in China, a petition (which amounts to a list of names of a piece of paper) illegal?

Don't misunderstand I know we have our own issues to fix like the surveillance thing -- that's been going forever (it's kinda why Nixon left office -- not that he did it, but that he covered it up) and many others that don't receive a lot of press but are probably nonetheless true.

But I have the right to pick up a blow-horn in Washington DC or across the street from the white house and shout my disfavor with the government.

What would happen if you picked up a blow horn and proclaimed your dissatisfaction with your government?

Thank you for your way of addressing the problem, which is without tons of baggage. And I am more than willing to answer your questions.

Firstly, "Who decides in your country the legality of a petition? What makes, in China, a petition (which amounts to a list of names of a piece of paper) illegal?"

But what if it is not about "petition (having a list of names on a piece of paper)" but actually about provoking the overthrown of the current administration, which is also illegal in USA and a question about it is still skipped by the straight-forward Chas?

How did this word "petition" come into the discussion? From FreeThought's post.

Before that? The news link provided by earmuffs.

I also used the word "petition" in my replies, because I considered those biased quotes unworthy of my time. But I did some research after you asked.

So would you like to do some research about why this man was put to jail before we continue on this subject?

Secondly, have you read my "I am here to surprise you" thread ? If you have, you will probably know that the Chinese people don't love their country to the extent of almost being religious.

Have you ever read my posts in the "Ask a communist thread" ? If you have, you may find that being a communist doesn't mean that I will go against my personal interests, namely free speech, freedom and human rights, going against which for no good reason is simply silly.

So, the question is, are you going to trust my even if I answer your questions not that satisfactorily, based on facts instead of "I don't know, but I think..."?

Thirdly, about "blow-horn".

A senior journalist posted a Weibo (Chinese counterpart of Twitter) thread about the corrupt deeds of Liu, Tienan, a vice minister of the Department of Railways. The senior journalist is not arrested. Liu, Tienan is removed from both party and governmental positions and now under investigation.

Besides, elected representatives accept dissatisfaction claims and make proposals in the National People's Congress where laws are made.

Let's be practical, you have the right to pick up the blow horn, so does Snowden, but why didn't he exercise that right?

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14-06-2013, 10:59 AM
RE: Welcome to China.
(14-06-2013 10:51 AM)Chas Wrote:  There you go, slipping out the back door again.

There you go, Chas, slipping out the back door again.

For the third time, I ask you:

WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF I CALL FOR THE OVERTHROWN OF THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION IN THE STREETS OF WASHINGTON?

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14-06-2013, 10:59 AM
RE: Welcome to China.
I can't help but wonder what constitutes a "legal" or "illegal" petition?

I mean, a petition is defined as:
pe·ti·tion
A formal written request, typically one signed by many people, appealing to authority with respect to a particular cause

It's basically a letter signed by many people to an authority in an attempt to have something changed or addressed. Is there really a nation on Earth currently which does not give it's people even the token freedom of petitions? And why? Why arrest a person for getting others to sign a piece of paper saying like "Hey, Government, you know what we, the people, think would be just fantastic? X. We'd love some X right about now. How's about you do us, the people your people stand for and represent, a favour and give us some X?"
X in this situation seems to be the ability to choose, or at least attempt to choose, who runs the country. It's not like such a petition would be inciting people into open revolt, rebellion or Revolution against the current Government or anything... Then again, traditionally, them communists were supposed to love them some good Revolutions....

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14-06-2013, 11:00 AM
RE: Welcome to China.
NOBODY WILL CARE, IT'S CALLED FREE SPEECH

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14-06-2013, 11:02 AM
RE: Welcome to China.
(14-06-2013 10:59 AM)HU.Junyuan Wrote:  
(14-06-2013 10:51 AM)Chas Wrote:  There you go, slipping out the back door again.

There you go, Chas, slipping out the back door again.

For the third time, I ask you:

WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF I CALL FOR THE OVERTHROWN OF THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION IN THE STREETS OF WASHINGTON?

It depends. If you call for the violent, armed overthrow, you will be arrested.
If you call for his impeachment or recall, you will not.

It is legal to call for the president, or any official, to step down or be thrown out of office, it is legal to call them stupid or arrogant or misguided.

It's called freedom of speech. You don't have it.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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