"Well. So-and-So Was An Atheist!"
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
28-01-2014, 06:29 PM
RE: "Well. So-and-So Was An Atheist!"
(28-01-2014 06:27 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(28-01-2014 06:02 PM)Phil Hill Wrote:  How about the Hitler was an atheist and evolution led to the Holocaust. Only Hitler was born, raised and died a member of the RCC which he never renounced or was excommunicated from. And he banned Darwin's books from Germany. But I enjoy when Christians use this argument then get all twisted by cognitive dissonance when they hear the truth.

Hey, Phil, since you're new to this forum, you are also aware of his famous “I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so” quote, right? Xtards hate it when you trot that one out.... heh...

I've not heard that one Taq, what's it all about?

A man blames his bad childhood on leprechauns. He claims they don't exist, but yet still says without a doubt that they stole all his money and then killed his parents. That's why he became Leprechaun-Man

Im_Ryan forum member
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-01-2014, 06:32 PM
Re: RE: "Well. So-and-So Was An Atheist!"
(28-01-2014 06:27 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(28-01-2014 06:02 PM)Phil Hill Wrote:  How about the Hitler was an atheist and evolution led to the Holocaust. Only Hitler was born, raised and died a member of the RCC which he never renounced or was excommunicated from. And he banned Darwin's books from Germany. But I enjoy when Christians use this argument then get all twisted by cognitive dissonance when they hear the truth.

Hey, Phil, since you're new to this forum, you are also aware of his famous “I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so” quote, right? Xtards hate it when you trot that one out.... heh...

I'm aware of that and many more quotes but just like most politicians whatever he said in public might just be to garner public opinion. For that reason I tend to avoid using his public quotes.

Using Tapatalk
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-01-2014, 06:36 PM
RE: "Well. So-and-So Was An Atheist!"
(28-01-2014 06:29 PM)Monster_Riffs Wrote:  
(28-01-2014 06:27 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  Hey, Phil, since you're new to this forum, you are also aware of his famous “I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so” quote, right? Xtards hate it when you trot that one out.... heh...

I've not heard that one Taq, what's it all about?

Enjoy:

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/...-he-was-q/



(28-01-2014 06:32 PM)Phil Hill Wrote:  I'm aware of that and many more quotes but just like most politicians whatever he said in public might just be to garner public opinion. For that reason I tend to avoid using his public quotes.


Yeah, understood. IIRC this was from a private letter, however, FWIW (to Gen. Gerhard Engel in 1941).

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Taqiyya Mockingbird's post
28-01-2014, 06:43 PM
RE: "Well. So-and-So Was An Atheist!"
(28-01-2014 05:42 PM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  We've all heard this one before right? You point out all the people that have been murdered in the name of God, and they turn around and say "Well, Stalin (or any other name) was an atheist, so that proves you atheists are evil!"

The problem with that defense is that Stalin didn't kill people in the name of atheism, so whether or not he was atheist is as relevant as whether or not he liked pizza.

get it almost daily, and it is easy to slam. With or without religion, evil people will do evil things and good people will do good things. For good people to do evil things usually requires religion. However, that being said, religion is simply the tool the ruler used to gain power over people to get what he wanted. "atheist" leaders in the past who did horrific things, were just evil people, their religious or non religious beliefs had nothing to do with their actions...now on the other side, not so much, holy crusades for example.

The Crusades were religious conflicts in the High Middle Ages through to the end of the Late Middle Ages conducted by Catholic Europe against Muslims, pagans, heretics, and people under the ban of excommunication. The geographic spread included the Near East, Al-Andalus, North Africa, Eastern Europe, and Northern Europe. They are most popularly associated with campaigns in the Holy Land to establish control of religious sites but also cover other campaigns for different religious, economic, and political reasons such as the Albigensian Crusade, the Aragonese Crusade, the Reconquista and the Northern Crusades.

The Crusades had major political, economic, and social impacts on western Europe. The conflict between the Latin Crusaders and the Orthodox Christians hardened the schism between the two, resulting in a substantial weakening of the Byzantine Empire and leading to the final fall of the Empire to the Ottomans several centuries later. The Reconquista, a long period of wars in Spain and Portugal (Iberia), where Christian forces reconquered the peninsula from Muslims, was closely tied to the Crusades.

The conduct of the Crusaders was criticized by contemporaries such as Bernard of Clairvaux, who denounced it. The Crusaders ravaged the countries they marched through, killed 8.000 Jews in the Rihneland in the first of Europe’s pogroms, devastated the Mediterranean ports, fought amongst themselves as much as the Infidel, and fleeced their subjects to fill their coffers. Murder and massacre in the service of the Gospel was commonplace. Seventy thousand civilians were butchered in the sack of Jerusalem.

so in closing, religion has been proven to be a driving force for holy way, (example, the current jihad ongoing worldwide by the islamic radicals) where as non belief has not been proven to my knowledge to have been the major contributing factor on wiping out people of differing views...I could be wrong. Just my two cents.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-01-2014, 06:45 PM
RE: "Well. So-and-So Was An Atheist!"
(28-01-2014 06:36 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(28-01-2014 06:29 PM)Monster_Riffs Wrote:  I've not heard that one Taq, what's it all about?

Enjoy:

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/...-he-was-q/



(28-01-2014 06:32 PM)Phil Hill Wrote:  I'm aware of that and many more quotes but just like most politicians whatever he said in public might just be to garner public opinion. For that reason I tend to avoid using his public quotes.


Yeah, understood. IIRC this was from a private letter, however, FWIW (to Gen. Gerhard Engel in 1941).

Bookmarmed Thumbsup

A man blames his bad childhood on leprechauns. He claims they don't exist, but yet still says without a doubt that they stole all his money and then killed his parents. That's why he became Leprechaun-Man

Im_Ryan forum member
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Monster_Riffs's post
28-01-2014, 07:46 PM
RE: "Well. So-and-So Was An Atheist!"
(28-01-2014 06:02 PM)Phil Hill Wrote:  How about the Hitler was an atheist and evolution led to the Holocaust. Only Hitler was born, raised and died a member of the RCC which he never renounced or was excommunicated from. And he banned Darwin's books from Germany. But I enjoy when Christians use this argument then get all twisted by cognitive dissonance when they hear the truth.

Yeah, but, he wasn't a true Christian. And, the Nazi belt buckle doesn't say "God with us"! It says "Got mittens?"! Or something!

Yeah, about all I hear is they heard he was atheist, then when you give them the evidence, they assume you're wrong, or just pull a huge No True Scotsman on you.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes RobbyPants's post
28-01-2014, 08:25 PM
RE: "Well. So-and-So Was An Atheist!"
Fallacy Files is a good source for defining transgressions in arguments, fun reading too.

http://www.fallacyfiles.org

http://www.fallacyfiles.org/taxonomy.html

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Full Circle's post
28-01-2014, 08:30 PM
Re: RE: "Well. So-and-So Was An Atheist!"
(28-01-2014 08:25 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  Fallacy Files is a good source for defining transgressions in arguments, fun reading too.

http://www.fallacyfiles.org

http://www.fallacyfiles.org/taxonomy.html

And Rapture Ready forums is a great place to see them.

Using Tapatalk
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Phil Hill's post
28-01-2014, 08:35 PM
RE: "Well. So-and-So Was An Atheist!"
(28-01-2014 05:59 PM)Monster_Riffs Wrote:  Yeah, not just on this forum but this argument gets trotted out a lot, usually with Hitler who was probably one of those naughty little Catholics! ... It might be interesting to look at this from both points of view though, our discussion in the other thread about Northern Ireland springs to mind here. It started as a secular and political conflict as you rightly pointed out, churches and religious stance came in much later as we discussed, so that, combined with this thread is making me wonder which wars have been atributed to religion where it wasn't the case? ... it's worth addressing, I like to have my factual house in order when antagonising theists Smile

One of the things that comes with religion is that even if it's not the main reason a war started, there have certainly been leaders who justified their actions with a "Well, these people aren't Christians, so that makes my war on them to be just!", or "I can convince the rest of the people of the country that we need to go to war with these people because they worship the wrong god!" Religion is a powerful tool to use to convince people that the other guy is the bad guy. When you bring religion into it, people will do bad things to others that they normally would not do, because they'll justify the deaths of those people with "They are denying Jesus!" (or Allah, or whatever other god/gods). Atheists don't use atheism as a measuring tool for morality, so using it as an excuse to unjustly kill people would make no sense.

Of course, religious people are more than happy to show their hypocrisy as an example of why it's so dangerous. The Richard Dawkins hate mail video I posted was a great example of that. If you haven't watched it yet, look it up on You Tube and see what all those loving Christians write to people who disagree with their views.

“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.” - Mark Twain
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes WindyCityJazz's post
28-01-2014, 08:52 PM
RE: "Well. So-and-So Was An Atheist!"
(28-01-2014 08:35 PM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  
(28-01-2014 05:59 PM)Monster_Riffs Wrote:  Yeah, not just on this forum but this argument gets trotted out a lot, usually with Hitler who was probably one of those naughty little Catholics! ... It might be interesting to look at this from both points of view though, our discussion in the other thread about Northern Ireland springs to mind here. It started as a secular and political conflict as you rightly pointed out, churches and religious stance came in much later as we discussed, so that, combined with this thread is making me wonder which wars have been atributed to religion where it wasn't the case? ... it's worth addressing, I like to have my factual house in order when antagonising theists Smile

One of the things that comes with religion is that even if it's not the main reason a war started, there have certainly been leaders who justified their actions with a "Well, these people aren't Christians, so that makes my war on them to be just!", or "I can convince the rest of the people of the country that we need to go to war with these people because they worship the wrong god!" Religion is a powerful tool to use to convince people that the other guy is the bad guy. When you bring religion into it, people will do bad things to others that they normally would not do, because they'll justify the deaths of those people with "They are denying Jesus!" (or Allah, or whatever other god/gods). Atheists don't use atheism as a measuring tool for morality, so using it as an excuse to unjustly kill people would make no sense.

Of course, religious people are more than happy to show their hypocrisy as an example of why it's so dangerous. The Richard Dawkins hate mail video I posted was a great example of that. If you haven't watched it yet, look it up on You Tube and see what all those loving Christians write to people who disagree with their views.

Yeah, I've seen that before. It's really funny. I totally agree with what you're saying here. Politicians have used religious leaders to mobilise the minds of the people for as long as history!

A man blames his bad childhood on leprechauns. He claims they don't exist, but yet still says without a doubt that they stole all his money and then killed his parents. That's why he became Leprechaun-Man

Im_Ryan forum member
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Monster_Riffs's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: