Well done ! And now it is legal.
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27-12-2013, 11:44 PM
Thumbs Up Well done ! And now it is legal.
Someone once recommended 1984 to me. Sorry, I still prefer the Brave New World style.

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News link: http://edition.cnn.com/2013/12/27/justice/nsa-ruling/

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Judge rules NSA collection of phone records is legal

Washington (CNN) -- The National Security Agency notched a much-needed win in court Friday after a series of setbacks over the legality and even the usefulness of its massive data collection program.

A federal judge in New York ruled the NSA's bulk collection of data on nearly every phone call made in the United States was legal.

The ruling contrasts with another ruling last week by a federal judge in Washington, who called the same program "almost Orwellian" and likely unconstitutional.

In his ruling Friday, U.S. District Judge William Pauley said the NSA's bulk collection of phone records under Section 215 of the Patriot Act was legal. The program was revealed in classified leaks by former NSA contractor Edward Snowden.


"But the question of whether that program should be conducted is for the other two coordinate branches of government to decide," said the ruling by Pauley, an appointee of President Bill Clinton.

The American Civil Liberties Union, which brought the case, said it would appeal Pauley's ruling.

"We are extremely disappointed with this decision, which misinterprets the relevant statutes, understates the privacy implications of the government's surveillance and misapplies a narrow and outdated precedent to read away core constitutional protections," said Jameel Jaffer, the ACLU's deputy legal director.

President Barack Obama is examining a review of the surveillance efforts that recommended changes in how the NSA program was conducted. Obama said last week he would decide what to do about it in January.

Last week, U.S. District Judge Richard Leon said the NSA's bulk collection of metadata -- phone records of the time and numbers called without any disclosure of content -- apparently violates privacy rights.

His preliminary ruling favored five plaintiffs challenging the practice, but Leon limited the decision only to their cases.

"I cannot imagine a more 'indiscriminate' and 'arbitrary invasion' than this systematic and high-tech collection and retention of personal data on virtually every citizen for purposes of querying and analyzing it without prior judicial approval," said Leon, an appointee of President George W. Bush. "Surely, such a program infringes on 'that degree of privacy' that the Founders enshrined in the Fourth Amendment."

Leon's ruling said the "plaintiffs in this case have also shown a strong likelihood of success on the merits of a Fourth Amendment claim," adding "as such, they too have adequately demonstrated irreparable injury."

He rejected the government's argument that a 1979 Maryland case provided precedent for the constitutionality of collecting phone metadata, noting that public use of telephones had increased dramatically in three decades.

Leon also noted the government "does not cite a single instance in which analysis of the NSA's bulk metadata collection actually stopped an imminent attack, or otherwise aided the government in achieving any objective that was time-sensitive in nature."

However, he put off enforcing his order barring the government from collecting the information, pending an appeal by the government.

A Justice Department spokesman said in response to Leon's ruling that "we believe the program is constitutional as previous judges have found."

Explosive revelations this year by Snowden triggered new debate about national security and privacy interests in the aftermath of the September 2001 terrorist attacks.

Snowden's disclosures led to more public disclosure about the secretive legal process that sets in motion the government surveillance.

The NSA has admitted it received secret court approval to collect vast amounts of metadata from telecom giant Verizon and leading Internet companies, including Microsoft, Apple, Google, Yahoo and Facebook.

The case before Leon involved approval for surveillance in April by a judge at a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court that handles individual requests for electronic surveillance for "foreign intelligence purposes."

Under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of the 1970s, the secret courts were set up to grant certain types of government requests -- wiretapping, data analysis and other monitoring of possible terrorists and spies operating in the United States.
The Patriot Act that Congress passed after the 9/11 attacks broadened the government's ability to conduct anti-terrorism surveillance in the United States and abroad, eventually including the metadata collection.

In order to collect the information, the government has to demonstrate it is "relevant" to an international terrorism investigation.

However, the 1978 FISA law lays out exactly what the special court must decide: "A judge considering a petition to modify or set aside a nondisclosure order may grant such petition only if the judge finds that there is no reason to believe that disclosure may endanger the national security of the United States, interfere with a criminal, counterterrorism, or counterintelligence investigation, interfere with diplomatic relations, or endanger the life or physical safety of any person."

In defending the program, Gen. Keith Alexander, the NSA's director, told the Senate Judiciary Committee last week that "15 separate judges of the FISA Court have held on 35 occasions that Section 215 (of the Patriot Act) authorizes the collection of telephony metadata in bulk in support of counterterrorism investigations."

Initially, telecommunications companies such as Verizon were the targets of legal action against Patriot Act provisions. Congress later gave retroactive immunity to those private businesses.

The New York ruling makes it more likely that the U.S. Supreme Court will have to tackle the issue of privacy and settle the dispute over the the NSA program.

For years, the courts have relied on a 1979 Supreme Court precedent that found privacy rights didn't extend to personal information people give to third-parties such as the phone companies, which store basic data on calls made. The secret court that oversees the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act has relied on that ruling to periodically reauthorize the NSA phone data program.

But technology has come a long way since then; modern cell phones are in constant communication with phone towers and tell a lot more information about phone customers than old land line phones. And at least some justices may be ready to take on the issue again.

Ruling last year in an unrelated case, Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor wrote that the 1979 standard may be "ill suited to the digital age" because people reveal a lot more information in seemingly mundane tasks.

"It may be necessary to reconsider the premise that an individual has no reasonable expectation of privacy in information voluntarily disclosed to third parties," she wrote.

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28-12-2013, 12:18 AM
RE: Well done ! And now it is legal.
This is why I don't Facebook. Dodgy

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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28-12-2013, 12:29 AM
RE: Well done ! And now it is legal.
Who else is completely indifferent to this NSA business? I know you people exist.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
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28-12-2013, 12:30 AM
RE: Well done ! And now it is legal.
Quote:In his ruling Friday, U.S. District Judge William Pauley said the NSA's bulk collection of phone records under Section 215 of the Patriot Act was legal. The program was revealed in classified leaks by former NSA contractor Edward Snowden.

ok from what I read in that section:



Quote:SEC. 215. ACCESS TO RECORDS AND OTHER ITEMS UNDER THE FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE SURVEILLANCE ACT.
Title V of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (50 U.S.C. 1861 et seq.) is amended by striking sections 501 through 503 and inserting the following:

`SEC. 501. ACCESS TO CERTAIN BUSINESS RECORDS FOR FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE AND INTERNATIONAL TERRORISM INVESTIGATIONS.
`(a)(1) The Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation or a designee of the Director (whose rank shall be no lower than Assistant Special Agent in Charge) may make an application for an order requiring the production of any tangible things (including books, records, papers, documents, and other items) for an investigation to protect against international terrorism or clandestine intelligence activities, provided that such investigation of a United States person is not conducted solely upon the basis of activities protected by the first amendment to the Constitution.

`(2) An investigation conducted under this section shall--

`(A) be conducted under guidelines approved by the Attorney General under Executive Order 12333 (or a successor order); and
`(B) not be conducted of a United States person solely upon the basis of activities protected by the first amendment to the Constitution of the United States.
`(b) Each application under this section--

`(1) shall be made to--
`(A) a judge of the court established by section 103(a); or
`(B) a United States Magistrate Judge under chapter 43 of title 28, United States Code, who is publicly designated by the Chief Justice of the United States to have the power to hear applications and grant orders for the production of tangible things under this section on behalf of a judge of that court; and
`(2) shall specify that the records concerned are sought for an authorized investigation conducted in accordance with subsection (a)(2) to protect against international terrorism or clandestine intelligence activities.
(1) Upon an application made pursuant to this section, the judge shall enter an ex parte order as requested, or as modified, approving the release of records if the judge finds that the application meets the requirements of this section.

`(2) An order under this subsection shall not disclose that it is issued for purposes of an investigation described in subsection (a).

`(d) No person shall disclose to any other person (other than those persons necessary to produce the tangible things under this section) that the Federal Bureau of Investigation has sought or obtained tangible things under this section.

`(e) A person who, in good faith, produces tangible things under an order pursuant to this section shall not be liable to any other person for such production. Such production shall not be deemed to constitute a waiver of any privilege in any other proceeding or context.

`SEC. 502. CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT.
`(a) On a semiannual basis, the Attorney General shall fully inform the Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence of the House of Representatives and the Select Committee on Intelligence of the Senate concerning all requests for the production of tangible things under section 402.

`(b) On a semiannual basis, the Attorney General shall provide to the Committees on the Judiciary of the House of Representatives and the Senate a report setting forth with respect to the preceding 6-month period--

`(1) the total number of applications made for orders approving requests for the production of tangible things under section 402; and
`(2) the total number of such orders either granted, modified, or denied.'.

I dont see how it is legal.

In fact it makes it even more illegal.

Am I reading through the wrong section? Or did the NSA inform a congressional comitee and apply for a court order by a judge 6 months before the surveilance was approved? - That would make it all even more scary.


link to section: http://theoceancountylibrary.org/USPatri...ion215.htm

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28-12-2013, 02:18 AM
RE: Well done ! And now it is legal.
So here's the deal with the NSA. They don't CARE about your personal calls/messages. There are hundreds of millions of people in the United States, and over a billion more who interact with them, do you really think they want to invade your privacy with their very finite staff of people? This is one of those things that is worked up to be so much more than it actually is. Mass data collection does not invade personal privacy. Ignore the media, they are making a mockery of the news just because they can.
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28-12-2013, 02:24 AM
RE: Well done ! And now it is legal.
(28-12-2013 02:18 AM)TheKetola Wrote:  So here's the deal with the NSA. They don't CARE about your personal calls/messages. There are hundreds of millions of people in the United States, and over a billion more who interact with them, do you really think they want to invade your privacy with their very finite staff of people? This is one of those things that is worked up to be so much more than it actually is. Mass data collection does not invade personal privacy. Ignore the media, they are making a mockery of the news just because they can.

I agree that for now it may be no big deal. What scares me is letting this pass could lead to them actually caring about your personal calls. It would give them free reigning to use this for nefarious reasons. Someone with an opinion that the government doesn't like could become a target, and that's now how our free society is supposed to operate. We are allowed privacy, and I thoroughly enjoy my privacy (or so I think). Just my two cents.
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