Well i made another atheist?
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19-01-2014, 01:19 AM
Well i made another atheist?
So i am recovering from religion myself i having had been an atheist/agnostic(ps i have no idea what to call myself yet) for almost a yr and a half now but it wasnt till about 4 months ago that i came out to one or to friends this got a couple horrible reactions and some good ones. In coming out to one of many friends and speaking with her i inadvertently made her a non believer and now i am trying to help her out( by far her situation is worse she is in a same sex relationship and she is in a HIGHLY RELIGIOUS FAMILY so now that i have done this i think i may as well killed her but i can say i have no regrets bc she is FINALLY SMILING AGAIN and not hurting herself but have i made it worse in the long run for her?!?!) so i need sources, books, arguments, anything to help her and me bc coming out for me has led to many an argument too. Help
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19-01-2014, 06:59 AM
RE: Well i made another atheist?
I wouldn't take so much guilt / responsibility upon yourself. You can't 'make' an atheist. All you have done is awaken something that was already there.

Advice and guidance for problem-solving will be contextual.

There are so many books out there and you could try reading them all but better to research specifics depending on each situation as it arises.

Are you looking for arguments to help her defend her new position?
Or advice in dealing with the negative reaction of 'friends' / relatives / colleagues?

What is the push-back:
Evolution? Equal rights? Cosmology? Eternal pits of fire?

Take a look in our library...
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...ce-Library

And good luck.

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19-01-2014, 07:53 AM
RE: Well i made another atheist?
(19-01-2014 01:19 AM)Thinkingfree Wrote:  So i am recovering from religion myself i having had been an atheist/agnostic(ps i have no idea what to call myself yet) for almost a yr and a half now but it wasnt till about 4 months ago that i came out to one or to friends this got a couple horrible reactions and some good ones. In coming out to one of many friends and speaking with her i inadvertently made her a non believer and now i am trying to help her out( by far her situation is worse she is in a same sex relationship and she is in a HIGHLY RELIGIOUS FAMILY so now that i have done this i think i may as well killed her but i can say i have no regrets bc she is FINALLY SMILING AGAIN and not hurting herself but have i made it worse in the long run for her?!?!) so i need sources, books, arguments, anything to help her and me bc coming out for me has led to many an argument too. Help
I don't think you've made it worse for her at all. Consider: You have freed her to develop a secular, reason based worldview in which her sense of self will no longer be based on the disapproval of a hateful, misogynistic, homophobic bully. She will no longer be swayed to self loathing by an archaic dogmatic cult. She can now develop a healthy sense of self worth based on scientific and philosophical understanding, intellectual and professional accomplishment, and human connections, free from the fear of condemnation from above based on aspects of her person that are beyond her control. You (ans she) may not be aware of it, but, I'll bet that's why she's smiling.

She will have to decide how to deal with family matters. Dealing with a highly religious family will always be hard. The faith based fear ingrained in their belief system will always be a stumbling block to understanding and communication. If she doesn't feel they can deal with both situations she can remain quietly resolute in her disbelief, comforted with the knowledge that their disapproval of her sexuality is informed by ignorance and fear. Or, she can can confront their beliefs and assert her independence. I've been reading Peter Boghosian's book A Manual for Creating Atheists.
Boghossian recommends addressing faith itself as a faulty way of discerning knowledge (epistemology), and not attacking the believers particular faith which is wrapped up in their identity. Either way, she (and you) will need a good support group. Check Meetup for local atheist/rationalist/humanist/LGBT groups. And you are already here at TTA which is a good start. Thumbsup

You can lead a theist to reason, but, you cannot make him think.
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19-01-2014, 08:21 AM
RE: Well i made another atheist?
Ah heck, if she's in a same sex relationship, shedding religion has got to be a huge relief!

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Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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19-01-2014, 09:14 AM
RE: Well i made another atheist?
All I want to ask is what material did you use? lol.

Seriously though, If you encouraged her to move away from religion you've done her a huge service. It might be a bit rough to start but she will feel better in the long run. So don't start feeling bad about it.
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19-01-2014, 10:37 AM
RE: Well i made another atheist?
Only read about three books the Greatest show on earth(Richard Dawkins), A manual for creating Atheists(Peter Boghossian), and The End of Faith(Sam Harris!!!). While i am a good debater and know i few arguments against god plus that I have read large portions of the bible from my christian days, she is not a good debater (ps i am on my schools debate team and we won 5 in nationals last yr to give you an idea however, that is unless against most Christians because, how they can't make or can't understand a good argument, but she is hopeless right now and she has to defend against push backs in: homosexuality, fear of hell, and being told by friends and family that she is a freak in both respects now as a homosexual and as an atheist). I cant give her any books cause she doesnt have a nook so she is reading mine in class. Lastly, we are both in high school, good thing is a have a few other friends who are nonbelievers, but its still hard bc me and her have some VERY PERSISTENT christians in our school christian group trying to convert us and even being quite cruel. One told me when my dad almost died this yr what was it like to know your dad was just gonna rot in the ground. I can take it and remain calm but i have no idea for her any suggestions?
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19-01-2014, 10:44 AM
RE: Well i made another atheist?
I don't quite understand the question, but I'm assuming you're asking how can she defend herself when they ask her questions due to her "not being a good debater?"

My suggestion, as someone who doesn't really debate actively, is to first off remain calm. Then if she doesn't know the answer to the question, to first tell them that she doesn't know the answer off hand (there is nothing wrong with "I dont know") but if that *insert christian here* would like an answer that she could research the question and get back to them.
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20-01-2014, 02:21 PM
RE: Well i made another atheist?
If she is in a same-sex relationship she had already made her choice, right?
Now she's just off the hook for going to hell.

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20-01-2014, 05:04 PM
RE: Well i made another atheist?
Teach her a few responses like " extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"

Show her this link Your logical fallacy

I agree with Hobbit, saying 'I don't know' is fine, and teach her the god of the gaps argument that goes with it.


"Life is a daring adventure or it is nothing"--Helen Keller
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