Poll: Were you once religious?
Yes, I used to believe once.
No, I never did.
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Were you once a believer?
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13-08-2013, 11:50 PM
RE: Were you once a believer?
I have thought about this and come to the conclusion that the answer is no. To go back to a a time that I might have been I would have to go back to the time before when I definitely wasn't which dates from about the age of 13 when I first went to boarding school and was horrified to find I was not only expected to attend a church service on Sunday morning but also suffer something called bible class on Sunday afternoons. What a colossal waist of a perfectly good weekend day I thought. Especially as we already had a subject called RK at school. What next? Extra maths and Saturday afternoons, more French verbs in the afternoon. I just could not comprehend it. So I can only assume before that religion was mostly about weddings, Xmas services and pretty lights, chocolate eggs and rabbits.

I did think about becoming a catholic once. Their service was earlier in the morning so instead of getting back to school at lunch time and only having a an hour or so before that damned excruciating bible class, they got back just after the rest off us had left and had most of the morning free. Clearly there were advantages to being a catholic.

We had the tent evangelicals come to town once and a lot of people went off to be "saved" (it was after all an opportunity perhaps to meet boys at a sanctioned event) but by that time I was in my own words a "card carrying atheist" (probably as much a pose at that time as anything else) and far to world weary and intellectual and scientific to be involved in that kind up opium for the masses.

Apart from the fact my mind was more stimulate by what I was learning from chemistry physics and zoology, I could never quite reconcile the "My dogma is right and we are saved and yours is wrong and you are damned" theme that seemed to run through all religions to a lesser or greater extent. How could they all be right? Easier to believe they were all wrong.

And it is not something I have thought about since, not much anyway. I assume all normal people are like me. Sure some of them still get married in churches (after all there is some thing about many old world churches and the love and craft that went into building them) but it floors me when people come out occasionally with some weird expression that makes me realise that they actually believe all that stuff. And here was me thinking they were a normal rational human being. Oh and if someone mentions they are a Christian on their website or thanks god for helping them win a race I get this feeling of how can you possible trust this person, they are obviously a bit strange. Its the "American disease" showing up on our shores. After all here apathy seems to be the creed most adhere to.

I only found out about this site this morning. Have been watching the youtubes and reading bits an pieces and hence my name perplexed. I just don't get it. Why all this effort needed to refute the claims of a few fantasists? But that is my reality, not yours. If you have been brought up in a deeply religious context (whether that be christian, Muslim, Hindu etc) the perspective is different.

I actually got into this as I am struggling with the fact I cannot find scientific proof to back up my "felt sense" of reality. In my profession the fact we respond to the emotions and energy of others is taken as given and is then linked to electromagnetic resonance. Its the "leap of faith" taken before the proof. I have to accept it does happen and that one day it will be explainable. One thing I know for sure, it wont be because there is a conductor up there waving his or her baton.
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14-08-2013, 12:12 AM
RE: Were you once a believer?
Welcome!

(13-08-2013 11:50 PM)Perplexed Wrote:  I only found out about this site this morning. Have been watching the youtubes and reading bits an pieces and hence my name perplexed. I just don't get it. Why all this effort needed to refute the claims of a few fantasists? But that is my reality, not yours.
Yep. It's an attempt at formulating a cure for the American Disease. Or Saudi Arabian disease. Or whichever.

Quote:I actually got into this as I am struggling with the fact I cannot find scientific proof to back up my "felt sense" of reality. In my profession the fact we respond to the emotions and energy of others is taken as given and is then linked to electromagnetic resonance. Its the "leap of faith" taken before the proof. I have to accept it does happen and that one day it will be explainable.

...wait, What? What profession, and which electromagnetic resonance? You lost me...

WWMWAZSKDTVQHTMJD?
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14-08-2013, 01:14 AM
RE: Were you once a believer?
Learning and development, leadership and team training.

1 So reality - you walk into a room pissed of at the world and before you even open your mouth every one around you ducks for cover. Combination of non verbal communication and something less definable (walked into the room and you could cut the atmosphere with a knife).

2 MRI - uses electromagnetic radiation to measure brain activity.

3 Leap of faith - part of the non verbal communication we are reading is the is the electromagnetic radiation being emitted by brain and heart neurons.

So I accpet one, because I experience it, 2 is fact. 3 will one day either be proved to be correct or incorrect, not my problem. For the moment I just live with 1.
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14-08-2013, 09:56 AM
RE: Were you once a believer?
(14-08-2013 01:14 AM)Perplexed Wrote:  Learning and development, leadership and team training.

1 So reality - you walk into a room pissed of at the world and before you even open your mouth every one around you ducks for cover. Combination of non verbal communication and something less definable (walked into the room and you could cut the atmosphere with a knife).

Body language and facial expressions are sufficient to communicate the mood.

Quote:2 MRI - uses electromagnetic radiation to measure brain activity.
No, not really. In nMRI, the emission is induced by the magnetic field.
"An MRI scanner is a device in which the patient lies within a large, powerful magnet where the magnetic field is used to align the magnetization of some atomic nuclei in the body, and radio frequency magnetic fields are applied to systematically alter the alignment of this magnetization.[1] This causes the nuclei to produce a rotating magnetic field detectable by the scanner—and this information is recorded to construct an image of the scanned area of the body.[2] Magnetic field gradients cause nuclei at different locations to precess at different speeds, which allows spatial information to be recovered using Fourier analysis of the measured signal. By using gradients in different directions, 2D images or 3D volumes can be obtained in any arbitrary orientation."
Quote:3 Leap of faith - part of the non verbal communication we are reading is the is the electromagnetic radiation being emitted by brain and heart neurons.

There is absolutely no evidence of this. Again, body language, facial expression, tone of voice do the job.

Quote:So I accpet one, because I experience it, 2 is fact. 3 will one day either be proved to be correct or incorrect, not my problem. For the moment I just live with 1.

#2 id not a fact, #3 is not a fact.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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14-08-2013, 10:53 AM
RE: Were you once a believer?
I don't really think I fell hook-line-and-sinker for Christianity. I went to church every sunday for as long as I can remember, but I just don't remember having any strong convictions. There was a time when I tried to convince myself to believe, but I can hardly remember why I attempted to. Anyways, I realized that I was just making myself angry with cognitive dissonance, so I just gave up and stopped believing.
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14-08-2013, 02:15 PM
RE: Were you once a believer?
Agree there is no evidence of three. Hence why it is a leap of faith to which there is much activity associated that makes me squirm.

Two , well fMRI uses the difference between oxygenated blood and non oxygenated blood and thus approximates neuronal activity. The radiation is artificially induced. If you are feeding three, then that equates to a fact.

One , there is more to it than that, non verbal is more than just body language and facial expression.just what all of that more is I have no idea and I'm not going to worry about it. All I need to do is work with people's awareness .
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14-08-2013, 02:33 PM
RE: Were you once a believer?
(14-08-2013 02:15 PM)Perplexed Wrote:  Two , well fMRI uses the difference between oxygenated blood and non oxygenated blood and thus approximates neuronal activity. The radiation is artificially induced. If you are feeding three, then that equates to a fact.

I don't understand your statement.

Quote:One , there is more to it than that, non verbal is more than just body language and facial expression.just what all of that more is I have no idea and I'm not going to worry about it. All I need to do is work with people's awareness .

You don't know that there is more to it than that. What evidence do you have?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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14-08-2013, 03:12 PM
RE: Were you once a believer?
Tone, silence, rate of delivery, choice of venue for instance. I guess it depends on how widely or narrowly you define body language. I think it is a term that needs care taken with as people tend to look for absolutes. If I cross my arms it means x, where in fact depending on a host of other factors ( including environment) it may not mean x at all. I'm not dealing with carefully controlled experiments, I'm dealing with messy people stuff.

Hmmm. If I have a hammer, everything looks like a nail. If I believe ( which I don't , as I have yet to see the evidence) that we are directly reading the changes in state of electrons then anything that looks like I support that will be taken as evidence, fluffed up with some pseudo scientific jargon an voila, there's your proof.
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14-08-2013, 03:23 PM
RE: Were you once a believer?
Anyway not the place for this , goes beyond an introduction.
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17-08-2013, 01:27 AM
RE: Were you once a believer?
Was I once a believer.....interesting question. I never believed in Christianity or a god of any kind, not conventionally anyhow. Most of my family are what I like to call "fake Christians" there's probably a term for it out there somewhere. Basically they're cherry pickers who like to take pieces of their scripture and bend the rules to better suit their own way of life. Anyway, when it comes to my own upbringing I was raised in a household where they practiced witchcraft. Paganism was huge in my immediate family and it was not Wicca but a sort of darker sudo version involving blood rituals, tarot readings and other strange and disturbing things no child in their lifetime should ever be subjected too. Anyway, I was gullible, uneducated, (generally petrified) and so for a long time I believed in this garbage. Then I went to college and got a BS in psychology. It was a gradual process but between finding these podcasts, doing extensive research, reading people like Hitchens and Dawkins, and getting an education I am proud to say I can think for myself. I never had the threat of an eternal hell in my family but I think I can relate to people who have a difficult time with that, because even though I know the things they said and did were complete falsity (and borderline psychotic) I honestly still have nightmares.
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