Westboro Vs Anonymous
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03-03-2011, 09:58 AM
RE: Westboro Vs Anonymous
Anyway, back to the original point: yesterday the US Supreme Court, by a vote of 8 - 1, upheld the rights of these twits to protest funerals under the First Amendment.

As much as I hate these people I'm pleased with the decision.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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03-03-2011, 10:39 AM
 
RE: Westboro Vs Anonymous
(03-03-2011 09:58 AM)BnW Wrote:  Anyway, back to the original point: yesterday the US Supreme Court, by a vote of 8 - 1, upheld the rights of these twits to protest funerals under the First Amendment.

As much as I hate these people I'm pleased with the decision.

Yeah, there was a whole thread dedicated to that news moments after it aired.
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03-03-2011, 02:33 PM
RE: Westboro Vs Anonymous
I am not pleased with their decision. Anyway you look at it, the WBC is a bunch of hate-mongers that are causing needless strife. There has got to be a better way than to deal with shit like them. If they were white supremists doing that the decision would have been different. If they weren't under the banner of a church, the decision would have been different.

When I find myself in times of trouble, Richard Dawkins comes to me, speaking words of reason, now I see, now I see.
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03-03-2011, 04:10 PM
RE: Westboro Vs Anonymous
(03-03-2011 02:33 PM)No J. Wrote:  If they were white supremists doing that the decision would have been different. If they weren't under the banner of a church, the decision would have been different.

This had nothing to do with their message and if they were a white supremacist or other hate group who had acted the same way it would have been the exact same result.

One thing to be clear about here is that the decision did not say that it was ok to protest at funerals in all instances. It said it was protecting political speech. If the court had found this was personal against the fallen Marine or his family the outcome may very well have been different. So, a hate group with a political agenda - even a twisted agenda like this one, would be afforded the exact same protections under the Constitution. As well they should be.

Please understand that I'm not defending these asshats or their message, but I am defending the absolute right to dissent in a democracy. That's what this is, it is dissent. It's wrapped up with warped and hateful views, but, again, freedom is not always pretty or nice. Sometimes it is vile, and ugly, and hateful.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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04-03-2011, 02:40 AM
RE: Westboro Vs Anonymous
Here's a thought - let's protest Fred Phelp's funeral ? Anyone interested ? Tongue

Atheism is a religion like OFF is a TV channel !!!

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04-03-2011, 10:40 AM
RE: Westboro Vs Anonymous
protest ? for what ? instead of protesting, do a party on his funeral Tongue
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04-03-2011, 11:05 AM
 
RE: Westboro Vs Anonymous
(04-03-2011 10:40 AM)Zetsuei Wrote:  protest ? for what ? instead of protesting, do a party on his funeral Tongue

I very much doubt that his funeral location would be a matter of public record, though every media outlet in the nation would cover his death.
However, in the event I'm wrong (perish the thought Tongue) I'd actually make the trip. Bringing balloons, a upside down artificial cross cake bearing the greeting: "Rest in Hell Fred" and topped with black candles.

It's up to others to being more balloons, streamers, horns, confetti and of course a Bose system that would play some nifty little appropriate FU ditty. What's a party without music, after all. Wink
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04-03-2011, 12:21 PM (This post was last modified: 04-03-2011 08:59 PM by gamutman.)
RE: Westboro Vs Anonymous
Just my quick take on the free speech/responsibility thing.

We've all heard that free speech does not mean you can yell "fire!" in a crowded theater. Most have probably also heard the concept that your right to swing your fist ends at the tip of my nose.

To me, there are two kinds of censorship; the kind others impose on me and the kind I impose on myself. If I have a broken self-censor, that's going to cause me to harm myself (reputation-wise,) but that's my problem. But if my self-censor is broken, and if I then become insulting or embarrassing, that doesn't give others the right to take over that responsibility and censor me for my sake. However, if I become injurious in a way other than being insulting or embarrassing (for example if I doc-drop or incite violence) then the censors are within their rights to silence me. That's swinging my fist past the tip of your nose. I don't have that right.

The only specific instance where this becomes muddy is when it can be shown that my claims are deliberate lies. Sometimes lies are actionable to the censors. Sometimes not. If I tell you that God wants you to give me your checkbook, that's over the line IF it can be shown that I lied and am not simply delusional. After all, it's only a lie if I know I'm lying.

So while Phelps is a disgusting person deserving of our scorn, he may actually believe what he's saying. If we can prove he doesn't, then shut him down.
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04-03-2011, 02:51 PM
RE: Westboro Vs Anonymous
(04-03-2011 12:21 PM)gamutman Wrote:  So while Phelps is a disgusting person deserving of our scorn, he may actually believe what he's saying. If we can prove he doesn't, then shut him down.

I suspect that Phelps believes every word of his delusions. I also don't understand why it matter if he doesn't. I was in full agreement with you until that last point.

I guess if we are talking political speech, which is very protected, and someone is lying about believing in a position because he has a financial interest in the outcome I could see some distinctions. But, if the issue is he's actually not a raving loon but is lying because he aspires to be one, I'm not sure I see what the difference is.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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04-03-2011, 08:21 PM
RE: Westboro Vs Anonymous
(04-03-2011 02:40 AM)gaglamesh731 Wrote:  Here's a thought - let's protest Fred Phelp's funeral ? Anyone interested ? Tongue

God Hates Fred??

My reason for being is to serve as a cat cushion. That is good enough for me. Wink
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