Westboro is coming to my college
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06-10-2011, 12:59 PM
RE: Westboro is coming to my college
OK... I was prodding you a bit. Sorry.

There is a point though. You need to define "doing something about it".

Using your burning house analogy, you are not doing anything about it. You are laying in bed screaming at the fire or maybe you are throwing wood at it to make it go away which actually makes it worse. Figure out what it takes to actually save yourself and everyone else if possible. Or figure out what exactly it takes to put the fire out. Ignoring can = doing something about it. Screaming or demonstrating or arguing or fighting can = doing nothing "about it".

It's the difference in doing what you want to do and doing what will stop the problem. You just want to do something that makes you "feel" that you are doing something about it. The real evidence is in your own attitude... "I'll do what I have to do" or "...ask yourself if I care at all about it" meaning my opinion. You don't give a damn about fixing the problem, you just want to feel like your are and you don't care what anyone thinks.

This forum is a place for people who want to think and learn and gear up for the battle for the future of the human race. If all you want to do is feel good about yourself, you are in over your head. People here will not be kind to you if you don't give a damn about other opinions and don't wish to find out if you are right or wrong. That's what the fundamentalists do; they want to feel good about talking at non-theists and we certainly aren't kind to them beyond a certain point.

If you are a troll, you are in the right place because we like trolls. They are fun to play with and sharpen out skills... sometimes. If you are not a troll, I think you are in over your head.

Yeah, I know, I know, you don't give a shit.

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06-10-2011, 01:19 PM
RE: Westboro is coming to my college
(06-10-2011 12:59 PM)defacto7 Wrote:  Yeah, I know, I know, you don't give a shit.
I don't because you fail to even try to understand my position. You trotted the "troll" card out quick enough, however.
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06-10-2011, 01:55 PM
RE: Westboro is coming to my college
(06-10-2011 01:19 PM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  
(06-10-2011 12:59 PM)defacto7 Wrote:  Yeah, I know, I know, you don't give a shit.
I don't because you fail to even try to understand my position. You trotted the "troll" card out quick enough, however.

Sorry, you did share your point. I don't need to try to understand your position if it is inadequate for me. You want me to say, "gee, you have a good point and so do I" Sorry but I can't, because you don't have a good point, just "I wanna because I wanna" and some historical references that actually can prove my point. There is no point from your position... just anger/resentment. Anger is a feeling, a reaction. A point is reasoned information, a logical position that can be argued. I wish you could see that because I do give a damn.

I will end this now finally. Have your say if you wish and I will leave it to you. We are pretty far off topic though understandably so.

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06-10-2011, 02:12 PM
RE: Westboro is coming to my college
(06-10-2011 01:55 PM)defacto7 Wrote:  
(06-10-2011 01:19 PM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  
(06-10-2011 12:59 PM)defacto7 Wrote:  Yeah, I know, I know, you don't give a shit.
I don't because you fail to even try to understand my position. You trotted the "troll" card out quick enough, however.

Sorry, you did share your point. I don't need to try to understand your position if it is inadequate for me. You want me to say, "gee, you have a good point and so do I" Sorry but I can't, because you don't have a good point, just "I wanna because I wanna" and some historical references that actually can prove my point. There is no point from your position... just anger/resentment. Anger is a feeling, a reaction. A point is reasoned information, a logical position that can be argued. I wish you could see that because I do give a damn.

I will end this now finally. Have your say if you wish and I will leave it to you. We are pretty far off topic though understandably so.
Still don't have a clue, do you.
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06-10-2011, 02:42 PM
RE: Westboro is coming to my college
(05-10-2011 10:53 PM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  "All that is required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

That is my all time favorite quote from Edmund Burke, and he is a man who said many poignant things.

Anyway, what people are suggesting here is not doing "nothing". On the contrary, an active campaign to deny them an audience and to shun them is a way of countering them. Probably a more effective way then shouting back at them. In the movie The Laramie Project they showed how the friends of Mathew Sheppard chose to deal with them when they came to Laramie, WY and I think it proved to be very effective. The Phelps clan had not seen it before and, at least in the movie version, it caught them off guard and shut them up a bit. They are prepared for that now, obviously, but they are generally prepared for all types of frontal assaults. They thrive on that, actually, as it gives them what they want most: publicity and media time.

As you point out, you are free to do what you want. But, the idea of meeting them with silence is not nearly the same as nothing. I think some of the ideas here are fantastic. The ROTC soldiers standing at attention, the people walking by and not saying a word, or just an entire community staying away. All of those actions are overt and send a clear message. And, it's a message that Phelps and his merry band of idiots can't shout back at no matter how hard the may try.

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06-10-2011, 02:52 PM
RE: Westboro is coming to my college
(06-10-2011 02:42 PM)BnW Wrote:  
(05-10-2011 10:53 PM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  "All that is required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

That is my all time favorite quote from Edmund Burke, and he is a man who said many poignant things.

Anyway, what people are suggesting here is not doing "nothing". On the contrary, an active campaign to deny them an audience and to shun them is a way of countering them. Probably a more effective way then shouting back at them. In the movie The Laramie Project they showed how the friends of Mathew Sheppard chose to deal with them when they came to Laramie, WY and I think it proved to be very effective. The Phelps clan had not seen it before and, at least in the movie version, it caught them off guard and shut them up a bit. They are prepared for that now, obviously, but they are generally prepared for all types of frontal assaults. They thrive on that, actually, as it gives them what they want most: publicity and media time.

As you point out, you are free to do what you want. But, the idea of meeting them with silence is not nearly the same as nothing. I think some of the ideas here are fantastic. The ROTC soldiers standing at attention, the people walking by and not saying a word, or just an entire community staying away. All of those actions are overt and send a clear message. And, it's a message that Phelps and his merry band of idiots can't shout back at no matter how hard the may try.
As I said above, everybody can do what they want. But telling me to do something because the speaker likes it is an utter waste of time. I'm sixty years old, and a student of history.
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06-10-2011, 03:05 PM
RE: Westboro is coming to my college
I'm not sure what age has to do with anything, and I'm not sure what historical conclusion you are drawing from here. But, yes, you are free to do as you please. I don't think there is any one "right" way to combat these asshats and obviously opinions will vary. Personally, I think giving them what they want is a huge mistake as all it seems to do is encourage them. That's what history teaches me when I look at the Felps clan.

To each their own, though.

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When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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06-10-2011, 03:19 PM
RE: Westboro is coming to my college
Trolls!? The Westboro church are trolls!? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Please no more! My ribs hurt from laughing. That's good comedy there. The Westboro church people are not trolls.

Trolls say things to get a reaction but they know what they're doing is going to piss people off as they do it for their own entertainment. I know for I am one.

The Westboro church does this because they actually think that they are doing the right thing. They are not doing it because it's fun. They don't get off by pissing people off (At least I hope they don't).

As for getting them to go away. I suggest rotten fruit or potatoes. Or a lot of strong stinkbobms placed round the area. You don't have to attack the church goers directly. A few well placed stinkbombs placed around their area of protest will have good results. Sure they might move to another area but stinkbombs are cheap and easy to move around.

Ignoring them will not make them go away. They are like that irritating fly buzzing around the room. Ignoring it doesn't make it go away. It just keeps flying around. But you don't want to go over the top and try to gun the thing down with a shotgun because that's just pointless. If you grab a flyswatter though, you can kill that annoying thing dead with minimal effort. Yeah. Kill it dead.

The Westboro church is nothing more than an irritating fly that needs to be swatted. The question is how? Ignoring will not work neither will yelling and getting outraged at them. Unless you intend to kill them getting pissed off won't solve anything. Subtle strategic plans and actions will win the day. All you have to do is come up with a cloak and dagger idea.. I've given my tinkbomb idea but many more exist. Come up with something

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06-10-2011, 03:33 PM
RE: Westboro is coming to my college
Please note that I have never advocated out-shouting the WBC.
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07-10-2011, 03:22 AM
RE: Westboro is coming to my college
So Gawdzilla, you say defacto7 is not hearing what you are saying, but are you hearing what the rest of us is saying? How about some of my ideas, don't some of them sound good to you? Also this idea with stinkbombs that Hamata k has suggested is maybe the best there is.

So, here is what I would do with it. I would come alone, stand 10 meters from them, not say a single word or even look at them directly, then I would take out the stink bombs, put a few in the middle of their group and walked away 10-20 meters. Then I would silently wait for them to make their move, if they ignore the smell, I would just repeat the process after 10 minutes, when the stink bombs wear of. If they move to a different location, I would move with them and do the same thing again and again...

If they dared to hit me or become aggressive, i would start bitchslapping them with great vengeance and furious anger. Then my friends (who had to be close for protective reasons) would join me and we would bitchslap them until they stop believing in any God... Of course, everything should be videotaped, for police to have the evidence who started the fight. And for the youtube, of course.

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