What Am I?
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16-01-2016, 01:34 PM
RE: What Am I?
(16-01-2016 11:46 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(16-01-2016 10:44 AM)morondog Wrote:  Why are you asking us, who are your own mental constructs, for help? I mean what kind of demented brain in a vat invents all this crap like the internet and so forth, just to ask for help proving that it's not a brain in a vat?

I am asking because I have not come across a such a world view that is similar to mines and i would like to know if anyone else knows what to call it or should I invent a new name for now.

I have not claimed to be a brain in a vat, I simply do not rule out the possibility therefore it is just as likely to be an absolute truth as are all other world views. If you have found a way to rule out the possibility then please show me? Is this too much to ask?

Your ridicule of the assumption that all this may have been premeditatedly fabricated in my thought process is fine by me because I never made that assumption.
Do you rule out the possibility that "thought" may be a random occurring process then? Why does it have to be premeditated?
I do not come to my world view by accepting preconceived notions & biases based on others perspectives.
To rule out the possibility that I am not in some sort of matrix when attempting to prove the existence of something is called a bias.
Biases are not used when discussing logic unless all parties involved in the discussion agree to assume the bias on for the sake of argument. I'm such a case the logical conclusion would not be an absolute truth but merely a logical possibility.

We had an intro just today who introduced us to the word escepticis. Seems to fit your belief system.
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16-01-2016, 02:11 PM
RE: What Am I?
(16-01-2016 12:45 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  How do you know that you exist?
Counter question: why should I or anyone care? I might be in the minority here but this "Brain-in-a-vat" nonsense has never seemed anything other then the kind of mental masturbation undertaken primarily by first year Philosophy majors and pseudo-intellectuals.
As a hypothesis it's entirely unfalsifiable and thus worthless in any substantive way. If it can't be proven or disproven then it's not worth the time it takes to ponder it. Even if it could be shown to be possible it wouldn't matter as we would still be bound by the rules of the world we find ourselves in and thus wouldn't change our day to day life one tiny bit. The thing is it's a thought experiment, not an actual theory/hypothesis about reality and people who treat it as if it is miss the point.

One thing I'd like to point out is if we want to play this "but how do you KNOW?" game is that well...you don't actually KNOW your thoughts are real. Or even your own. Or even an actual thing. For example:
How do you know that it's not someone else who is a "brain-in-a-vat" and you are not a part of the fabricated reality which is complex enough to generate thoughts for you and convince you they are yours?
How do you know that you were not magicked into existence a 100th of a billionth of a second ago with all your thoughts prefabricated? How do you know it's not the next second, or the next second or the next second or the second after that?
How do you know your thoughts are your thoughts and not collections of predetermined data placed there by an outside source every thought?

I'm going to point out, quickly, that one of the problems you have with figuring out who you are is that you managed to completely misunderstand what Atheism, Theism, and Agnosticism actually are. However if you want to know what you are here is a 3 step system:
1.) Ask yourself do I know that a god exists or does not exist. If you say you do know you are a Gnostic, if you say you don't know you are an Agnostic.
2.) Ask yourself do you believe a god exists or does not exist. If you say you do believe a god exists you are a Theist if you do not believe a god exists then you are an Atheist.
3.) Combine your answers from steps 1 and two and you have your answer.
Gnostic Atheist/ Agnostic Atheist/ Agnostic Theist/ Gnostic Theist

Agnostic is not a middle ground between Atheism and Theism, there is no middle ground between the two, you either posses a belief in a god or you don't. Atheism/theism deals with belief, Agnosticism/Gnosticism deals with knowledge.

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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16-01-2016, 02:19 PM
RE: What Am I?
(16-01-2016 11:46 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(16-01-2016 10:44 AM)morondog Wrote:  Why are you asking us, who are your own mental constructs, for help? I mean what kind of demented brain in a vat invents all this crap like the internet and so forth, just to ask for help proving that it's not a brain in a vat?

I am asking because I have not come across a such a world view that is similar to mines and i would like to know if anyone else knows what to call it or should I invent a new name for now.

I have not claimed to be a brain in a vat, I simply do not rule out the possibility therefore it is just as likely to be an absolute truth as are all other world views. If you have found a way to rule out the possibility then please show me? Is this too much to ask?

Your ridicule of the assumption that all this may have been premeditatedly fabricated in my thought process is fine by me because I never made that assumption.
Do you rule out the possibility that "thought" may be a random occurring process then? Why does it have to be premeditated?
I do not come to my world view by accepting preconceived notions & biases based on others perspectives.
To rule out the possibility that I am not in some sort of matrix when attempting to prove the existence of something is called a bias.
Biases are not used when discussing logic unless all parties involved in the discussion agree to assume the bias on for the sake of argument. I'm such a case the logical conclusion would not be an absolute truth but merely a logical possibility.

Why care if there is a label or make up a label for it at all? Does that grant you anything you seek? If so, why do you seek such things?

You don't have to rule out anything or have any desire for absolute truth or even a lesser extent. You are kinda forced in the conscious form to think something but there is no reason to give into the seeming desire to have a set answer.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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16-01-2016, 02:34 PM
RE: What Am I?
(16-01-2016 12:45 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  How do you know that you exist?

I don't. I can't. So what? What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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16-01-2016, 02:39 PM
RE: What Am I?
(16-01-2016 01:30 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(16-01-2016 11:46 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  I am asking because I have not come across a such a world view that is similar to mines and i would like to know if anyone else knows what to call it or should I invent a new name for now.

I have not claimed to be a brain in a vat, I simply do not rule out the possibility therefore it is just as likely to be an absolute truth as are all other world views. If you have found a way to rule out the possibility then please show me? Is this too much to ask?

Your ridicule of the assumption that all this may have been premeditatedly fabricated in my thought process is fine by me because I never made that assumption.
Do you rule out the possibility that "thought" may be a random occurring process then? Why does it have to be premeditated?
I do not come to my world view by accepting preconceived notions & biases based on others perspectives.
To rule out the possibility that I am not in some sort of matrix when attempting to prove the existence of something is called a bias.
Biases are not used when discussing logic unless all parties involved in the discussion agree to assume the bias on for the sake of argument. I'm such a case the logical conclusion would not be an absolute truth but merely a logical possibility.

I'm *telling* you that you *are* a brain in a vat. Why don't you believe me?
I believe it is possible, but I do not rule out the possibility that you could be wrong.
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16-01-2016, 02:55 PM
RE: What Am I?
(16-01-2016 02:34 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(16-01-2016 12:45 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  How do you know that you exist?

I don't. I can't. So what? What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?
It bears relevance to the Forum we are both posting on. A forum about the existence or non existence of God.
If the concept of existence has no value to the members of this Forum then why are we even here? We could just as easily have joined a sports forum.
Why are you an Atheist?
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16-01-2016, 03:05 PM
RE: What Am I?
(16-01-2016 02:19 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(16-01-2016 11:46 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  I am asking because I have not come across a such a world view that is similar to mines and i would like to know if anyone else knows what to call it or should I invent a new name for now.

I have not claimed to be a brain in a vat, I simply do not rule out the possibility therefore it is just as likely to be an absolute truth as are all other world views. If you have found a way to rule out the possibility then please show me? Is this too much to ask?

Your ridicule of the assumption that all this may have been premeditatedly fabricated in my thought process is fine by me because I never made that assumption.
Do you rule out the possibility that "thought" may be a random occurring process then? Why does it have to be premeditated?
I do not come to my world view by accepting preconceived notions & biases based on others perspectives.
To rule out the possibility that I am not in some sort of matrix when attempting to prove the existence of something is called a bias.
Biases are not used when discussing logic unless all parties involved in the discussion agree to assume the bias on for the sake of argument. I'm such a case the logical conclusion would not be an absolute truth but merely a logical possibility.

Why care if there is a label or make up a label for it at all? Does that grant you anything you seek? If so, why do you seek such things?

You don't have to rule out anything or have any desire for absolute truth or even a lesser extent. You are kinda forced in the conscious form to think something but there is no reason to give into the seeming desire to have a set answer.
It matters to me why I care about what class I fall in. I am not obligated to tell you why it matters in the same way you are not obligated to help me find a class.
Are you of the opinion that we should only answer a question if we understand the purpose of the question?
Where is the logic in that?
I came to these forums to seek logic minded persons similar to myself and discuss matters petertaining to Atheism & Theism.
Did I come to the wrong place?
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16-01-2016, 03:14 PM (This post was last modified: 16-01-2016 03:23 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: What Am I?
(16-01-2016 02:55 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(16-01-2016 02:34 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I don't. I can't. So what? What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?
It bears relevance to the Forum we are both posting on. A forum about the existence or non existence of God.
If the concept of existence has no value to the members of this Forum then why are we even here? We could just as easily have joined a sports forum.
Why are you an Atheist?

I am not an atheist. I am my own personal lord and savior. My own personal Jesus. The embodiment of The Word, The Christ. Yes Virginia there is a Santa Claus and it is us. I AM god. In BOB I trust.





There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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16-01-2016, 03:33 PM
RE: What Am I?
(16-01-2016 03:14 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(16-01-2016 02:55 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  It bears relevance to the Forum we are both posting on. A forum about the existence or non existence of God.
If the concept of existence has no value to the members of this Forum then why are we even here? We could just as easily have joined a sports forum.
Why are you an Atheist?

I am not an atheist. I am my own personal lord and savior. My own personal Jesus. The embodiment of The Word, The Christ. Yes Virginia there is a Santa Claus and it is us. I AM god. In BOB I trust.




Does this mean you are a Theist then?
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16-01-2016, 03:34 PM
RE: What Am I?
(16-01-2016 03:33 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(16-01-2016 03:14 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I am not an atheist. I am my own personal lord and savior. My own personal Jesus. The embodiment of The Word, The Christ. Yes Virginia there is a Santa Claus and it is us. I AM god. In BOB I trust.




Does this mean you are a Theist then?

It means I AM.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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