What Am I?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
16-01-2016, 03:43 PM
RE: What Am I?
(15-01-2016 07:58 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Hello All.

My name is Shane.
I have a world view but I am unsure what others would call it.

I once thought I was Atheist & then thought I was Agnostic, but now I am not sure if these world view properly depicts mines.

It is a basic unprovable "brain in a vat or not" that haunts me.



I do not accept that anything is absolutely true or absolutely exists other than these thoughts. These thoughts do exist and it would be illogical to dismiss it.
I do not even know for a fact if the entity I call "I" is the real me or am I being forced to relive the thought process of another entity. Therefore I may not be who I think I am. For all intents and purposes I will continue to call myself "I" to keep it simple.

By process of elimination;
How can I be a Theist, an Atheist, an Agnostic, a Solipsist or even an Individual considering that I do not accept the following absolutes:

God is absolutely true or Absolutely exists. Therefore not a Theist.
God is absolutely not true or absolutely does not exist. Therefore not an Atheist.
Material things are absolutely true or absolutely exists. Therefore not an Agnostic.
Material things are absolutely not true or absolutely does not exist. Therefore not a Solipsist.
I am absolutely me & I absolutely exist. Therefore not an Individual.

I do accept that:
Thoughts absolutely exist & everything else is absolutely unknowable.
So what do you call that?

What do you call someone that believes nothing can be proven to be absolutely true or absolutely exist except this "thing" we call thoughts. How thoughts exist, how you define what a thought is and who owns them doesn't disprove it's existence.
Please note I did not say "my thoughts" only "thoughts"

Help Please?

be·lief/bəˈlēf/
noun
an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.

know/nō/
verb
be aware of through observation, inquiry, or information.

a·the·ism/ˈāTHēˌizəm/
noun
disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

ag·nos·tic/aɡˈnästik/
noun
a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God.

sol·ip·sism/ˈsälipˌsizəm/
noun
the view or theory that the self is all that can be known to exist.

the·ism/ˈTHēˌizəm/
noun
belief in the existence of a god or gods, especially belief in one god as creator of the universe, intervening in it and sustaining a personal relation to his creatures.

in·di·vid·u·al/ˌindəˈvij(o͞o)əl/
adjective
single; separate.
of or for a particular person.
noun
a single human being as distinct from a group, class, or family.

A long-winded and unnecessary question. You have way too much time on your hands.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-01-2016, 03:45 PM
RE: What Am I?
(16-01-2016 02:19 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(16-01-2016 11:46 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  I am asking because I have not come across a such a world view that is similar to mines and i would like to know if anyone else knows what to call it or should I invent a new name for now.

I have not claimed to be a brain in a vat, I simply do not rule out the possibility therefore it is just as likely to be an absolute truth as are all other world views. If you have found a way to rule out the possibility then please show me? Is this too much to ask?

Your ridicule of the assumption that all this may have been premeditatedly fabricated in my thought process is fine by me because I never made that assumption.
Do you rule out the possibility that "thought" may be a random occurring process then? Why does it have to be premeditated?
I do not come to my world view by accepting preconceived notions & biases based on others perspectives.
To rule out the possibility that I am not in some sort of matrix when attempting to prove the existence of something is called a bias.
Biases are not used when discussing logic unless all parties involved in the discussion agree to assume the bias on for the sake of argument. I'm such a case the logical conclusion would not be an absolute truth but merely a logical possibility.

Why care if there is a label or make up a label for it at all? Does that grant you anything you seek? If so, why do you seek such things?

You don't have to rule out anything or have any desire for absolute truth or even a lesser extent. You are kinda forced in the conscious form to think something but there is no reason to give into the seeming desire to have a set answer.
I have my reasons why I want to know my classification. I am not obliged to tell you why i want to know in the same way you are not obliged to help me find my classification. This doesn't mean that I should not ask nor that you shouldn't help me.
What makes you think I have a desire for absolute truth & that it is of high priority to me?
It is only relevant for me to find my classification.
I am just fine accepting the possibility that I will never know the nature of anything for certainty.
My only desire is to know my classification for now.
I will eventually give this classification a name if no one is able to to show me one that meets my acceptance list.
Your questions are no different than asking me why do I want to eat bacon this morning. It does not alter my desire nor does it require a reason for my desire to exist.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-01-2016, 03:48 PM
RE: What Am I?
(16-01-2016 03:05 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(16-01-2016 02:19 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Why care if there is a label or make up a label for it at all? Does that grant you anything you seek? If so, why do you seek such things?

You don't have to rule out anything or have any desire for absolute truth or even a lesser extent. You are kinda forced in the conscious form to think something but there is no reason to give into the seeming desire to have a set answer.
It matters to me why I care about what class I fall in. I am not obligated to tell you why it matters in the same way you are not obligated to help me find a class.
Are you of the opinion that we should only answer a question if we understand the purpose of the question?
Where is the logic in that?
I came to these forums to seek logic minded persons similar to myself and discuss matters petertaining to Atheism & Theism.
Did I come to the wrong place?

Apparently you think I'm saying you shouldn't ask... not at all the intend of my questions to you.

Maybe you should ask yourself these things more, you know? It may have you seeking for something with a far more understandable scenario.

And btw, Come to the "wrong" place? What on earth could that mean, what is a wrong place? There is merely a place. You're adding a value if you want to determine it is "wrong" or not.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-01-2016, 03:58 PM
RE: What Am I?
(15-01-2016 07:58 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  I have a world view but I am unsure what others would call it.

Is the label important? Pigeon holes are for the birds.

Quote:I once thought I was Atheist & then thought I was Agnostic, but now I am not sure if these world view properly depicts mines.

It sounds as if both terms are accurate. They are not mutually exclusive.

Quote:It is a basic unprovable "brain in a vat or not" that haunts me.

Cogito ergo sum. Descarte buggered it up from there but that much works.

Quote:God is absolutely not true or absolutely does not exist. Therefore not an Atheist.

Incorrect. Theism/Atheism describes your belief in God, or lack thereof. It does not refer to your knowledge of the existence of God.

Theist: I believe that God exists.
Atheist: I do not believe that God exists.

Quote:Material things are absolutely true or absolutely exists. Therefore not an Agnostic.

Again, your definition is wrong here. You appear to be defining a Materialist. The term "Agnostic" is loosely used by many as an intermediate between Atheism and Theism. This is because some people are uncomfortable identifying as atheists and because others just like to try and tell you that you aren't really an atheist. A logical examination shows that this usage is incorrect. Either you believe and are a Theist or you do not believe and are an Atheist. There is no middle ground.

Gnosticism/Agnosticism describes what you know, or at least what you believe that you know. Gnostics claim to possess knowledge. Agnostics do not claim to possess knowledge.

Gnosticism/Agnosticism and Theism/Atheism describe different traits and are not necessarily even related. For example, it is entirely possible to be an Agnostic 9/11 Consiracy Theorist. Such an individual would believe that it was all a government cover-up but would lack definitive knowledge.

I am an agnostic atheist. I do not believe in God but I have no conclusive evidence that precludes his existence.

Quote:I do not accept that anything is absolutely true or absolutely exists other than these thoughts.

Then whatever else you may be you are an agnostic (I do not know) atheist (I do not believe).

---
Flesh and blood of a dead star, slain in the apocalypse of supernova, resurrected by four billion years of continuous autocatalytic reaction and crowned with the emergent property of sentience in the dream that the universe might one day understand itself.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-01-2016, 03:59 PM
RE: What Am I?
(16-01-2016 03:43 PM)xieulong Wrote:  
(15-01-2016 07:58 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Hello All.

My name is Shane.
I have a world view but I am unsure what others would call it.

I once thought I was Atheist & then thought I was Agnostic, but now I am not sure if these world view properly depicts mines.

It is a basic unprovable "brain in a vat or not" that haunts me.



I do not accept that anything is absolutely true or absolutely exists other than these thoughts. These thoughts do exist and it would be illogical to dismiss it.
I do not even know for a fact if the entity I call "I" is the real me or am I being forced to relive the thought process of another entity. Therefore I may not be who I think I am. For all intents and purposes I will continue to call myself "I" to keep it simple.

By process of elimination;
How can I be a Theist, an Atheist, an Agnostic, a Solipsist or even an Individual considering that I do not accept the following absolutes:

God is absolutely true or Absolutely exists. Therefore not a Theist.
God is absolutely not true or absolutely does not exist. Therefore not an Atheist.
Material things are absolutely true or absolutely exists. Therefore not an Agnostic.
Material things are absolutely not true or absolutely does not exist. Therefore not a Solipsist.
I am absolutely me & I absolutely exist. Therefore not an Individual.

I do accept that:
Thoughts absolutely exist & everything else is absolutely unknowable.
So what do you call that?

What do you call someone that believes nothing can be proven to be absolutely true or absolutely exist except this "thing" we call thoughts. How thoughts exist, how you define what a thought is and who owns them doesn't disprove it's existence.
Please note I did not say "my thoughts" only "thoughts"

Help Please?

be·lief/bəˈlēf/
noun
an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.

know/nō/
verb
be aware of through observation, inquiry, or information.

a·the·ism/ˈāTHēˌizəm/
noun
disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

ag·nos·tic/aɡˈnästik/
noun
a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God.

sol·ip·sism/ˈsälipˌsizəm/
noun
the view or theory that the self is all that can be known to exist.

the·ism/ˈTHēˌizəm/
noun
belief in the existence of a god or gods, especially belief in one god as creator of the universe, intervening in it and sustaining a personal relation to his creatures.

in·di·vid·u·al/ˌindəˈvij(o͞o)əl/
adjective
single; separate.
of or for a particular person.
noun
a single human being as distinct from a group, class, or family.

A long-winded and unnecessary question. You have way too much time on your hands.
Purely a matter of perspective. It took me 5 minutes to write & I do not spend much time contemplating the implications of such a world view.
I only seek to know my classification.

The question is actually quite short:
"Who am I?
3 words doesn't strike me as being long winded.

As for it's necessity:
I have a desire to know which world view classification I belong to. I do not believe it is necessary in the same way I don't believe knowing my race is necessary to accomplish anything in life. This does not stop me from wanting to know my race, so why would it stop me from wanting to know my world view classification?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-01-2016, 04:05 PM
RE: What Am I?
(16-01-2016 11:46 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(16-01-2016 10:44 AM)morondog Wrote:  Why are you asking us, who are your own mental constructs, for help? I mean what kind of demented brain in a vat invents all this crap like the internet and so forth, just to ask for help proving that it's not a brain in a vat?

I am asking because I have not come across a such a world view that is similar to mines and i would like to know if anyone else knows what to call it or should I invent a new name for now.

I have not claimed to be a brain in a vat, I simply do not rule out the possibility therefore it is just as likely to be an absolute truth as are all other world views. If you have found a way to rule out the possibility then please show me? Is this too much to ask?

Your ridicule of the assumption that all this may have been premeditatedly fabricated in my thought process is fine by me because I never made that assumption.
Do you rule out the possibility that "thought" may be a random occurring process then? Why does it have to be premeditated?
I do not come to my world view by accepting preconceived notions & biases based on others perspectives.
To rule out the possibility that I am not in some sort of matrix when attempting to prove the existence of something is called a bias.
Biases are not used when discussing logic unless all parties involved in the discussion agree to assume the bias on for the sake of argument. I'm such a case the logical conclusion would not be an absolute truth but merely a logical possibility.

It has a name: Solipsism. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-01-2016, 04:05 PM
RE: What Am I?
(16-01-2016 03:48 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(16-01-2016 03:05 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  It matters to me why I care about what class I fall in. I am not obligated to tell you why it matters in the same way you are not obligated to help me find a class.
Are you of the opinion that we should only answer a question if we understand the purpose of the question?
Where is the logic in that?
I came to these forums to seek logic minded persons similar to myself and discuss matters petertaining to Atheism & Theism.
Did I come to the wrong place?

Apparently you think I'm saying you shouldn't ask... not at all the intend of my questions to you.

Maybe you should ask yourself these things more, you know? It may have you seeking for something with a far more understandable scenario.

And btw, Come to the "wrong" place? What on earth could that mean, what is a wrong place? There is merely a place. You're adding a value if you want to determine it is "wrong" or not.
A wrong place in this regard is relative to my objective here.
I wish to know my world view classification so I came to a forum that discusses world views.
If my objective was to discuss politics then I could safely say "I came to the wrong place"
If you do not believe an online forum can be classified as a place I would be willing to discuss this further. Preferably after finding out my world view classification first however.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-01-2016, 04:08 PM
RE: What Am I?
(16-01-2016 03:59 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(16-01-2016 03:43 PM)xieulong Wrote:  A long-winded and unnecessary question. You have way too much time on your hands.
Purely a matter of perspective. It took me 5 minutes to write & I do not spend much time contemplating the implications of such a world view.
I only seek to know my classification.

The question is actually quite short:
"Who am I?
3 words doesn't strike me as being long winded.

As for it's necessity:
I have a desire to know which world view classification I belong to. I do not believe it is necessary in the same way I don't believe knowing my race is necessary to accomplish anything in life. This does not stop me from wanting to know my race, so why would it stop me from wanting to know my world view classification?

For some reason you respond like the response was aimed at your actual titled question in "what am I?" Opposed to thinking or at least responding, like the point was about the actual thoughts and process of the question... that seems a little off-kilter.

You seem really defensive about people's responses to you for some reason. It's not a negate to your question to ask questions about it.

(16-01-2016 04:05 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(16-01-2016 03:48 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Apparently you think I'm saying you shouldn't ask... not at all the intend of my questions to you.

Maybe you should ask yourself these things more, you know? It may have you seeking for something with a far more understandable scenario.

And btw, Come to the "wrong" place? What on earth could that mean, what is a wrong place? There is merely a place. You're adding a value if you want to determine it is "wrong" or not.
A wrong place in this regard is relative to my objective here.
I wish to know my world view classification so I came to a forum that discusses world views.
If my objective was to discuss politics then I could safely say "I came to the wrong place"
If you do not believe an online forum can be classified as a place I would be willing to discuss this further. Preferably after finding out my world view classification first however.

Well you came to a place where a lot of people don't think "world view classifications" are valuable. So perhaps you did. I'm like Girly in some regards that I don't know I exist, I don't know I am not a brain in a vat or whatnot. Yet it's a big so what to me? It's possibly all absurd anyway.

Your label is what you make of it anyway, whatever you define it as even if you think it means something, others wont always think it means that.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-01-2016, 04:12 PM
RE: What Am I?
(16-01-2016 02:55 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(16-01-2016 02:34 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I don't. I can't. So what? What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?
It bears relevance to the Forum we are both posting on. A forum about the existence or non existence of God.

No, actually, it's not; it's by, for, and about thinking atheists.

Quote:If the concept of existence has no value to the members of this Forum then why are we even here? We could just as easily have joined a sports forum.

Go join a sports forum. Solipsism is boring and solipsists are annoying. Drinking Beverage

Quote:Why are you an Atheist?

I do not have a belief in any gods.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-01-2016, 04:22 PM
RE: What Am I?
(16-01-2016 04:05 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(16-01-2016 11:46 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  I am asking because I have not come across a such a world view that is similar to mines and i would like to know if anyone else knows what to call it or should I invent a new name for now.

I have not claimed to be a brain in a vat, I simply do not rule out the possibility therefore it is just as likely to be an absolute truth as are all other world views. If you have found a way to rule out the possibility then please show me? Is this too much to ask?

Your ridicule of the assumption that all this may have been premeditatedly fabricated in my thought process is fine by me because I never made that assumption.
Do you rule out the possibility that "thought" may be a random occurring process then? Why does it have to be premeditated?
I do not come to my world view by accepting preconceived notions & biases based on others perspectives.
To rule out the possibility that I am not in some sort of matrix when attempting to prove the existence of something is called a bias.
Biases are not used when discussing logic unless all parties involved in the discussion agree to assume the bias on for the sake of argument. I'm such a case the logical conclusion would not be an absolute truth but merely a logical possibility.

It has a name: Solipsism. Drinking Beverage

I already negated the possibility that I would classify as a Solipcist in my Original Post.

sol·ip·sism/ˈsälipˌsizəm/
noun
the view or theory that the self is all that can be known to exist.

I do not rule out the possibility that:
I am possibly a group of telepathic mind controling entities
I am reliving someone elses's memories.

I am no more certain that I exist as an individual than I am certain that others exist as a separate individual.

Here is the claim:
All I can be certain of is "something exists"
Here is the premise:
I call the statement "something exists" a thought based on the meaning of the word thought.
Here is the conclusion.
Therefore I come to the conclusion that a "thought" must exist.

Where lies the flaw in my logic?
What fallacies have I committed?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: