What Am I?
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16-01-2016, 05:31 PM
RE: What Am I?
(16-01-2016 05:26 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(16-01-2016 05:11 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  I would call you "perpetually skeptic" as sometimes I have been called by some if it weren't for your claims that you know thoughts & the process of thinking are real.

Who you think maintains the word of "atheism" to mean what you may think society deems it to mean is different. Words & labels have multiple meanings. Atheism can & most often in definitions and circles does just mean, lack of a belief. It doesn't have to mean proclaims no god exists. In the range of atheism there is diversions like agnostic atheist/gnostic atheist or sometimes people use the scale of 0-7 in an scale of theistic belief. Others talk about the term in "strong" atheist vs "weak" atheist. You on these scales seemingly would be an agnostic atheist or weak atheist. Or along the "Dawkins scale" a 6? I guess. I mean it would be up to you to determine what you really think.
Your understanding of Atheism contradicts my research.
I do not qualify as an Atheist because:
Atheism means "disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods."
How can I be an Atheist if I do not have any beliefs about the "Existence or Non Existence of God". The key word here is belief.

be·lief/bəˈlēf/
noun
an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.

You lack a belief in any gods, hence you are atheist.

Quote:Do you believe that the claim God Exists "to be a true statement"? No.
Do you believe that the claim God Does not Exist "to be a true statement"? No.

If society would change the meaning of the word Athiesm to mean:
"The acceptance of the possibility that God may or May not exist" then I would be an Atheist.

That makes you an agnostic atheist.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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16-01-2016, 05:36 PM
RE: What Am I?
(16-01-2016 05:30 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(16-01-2016 04:41 PM)Chas Wrote:  Read your own words: "A forum about the existence or non existence of God."

It is not about that. You can discuss whatever you want here, but your characterization of the forum is incorrect.

And since you claim that the only thing you know to exist is your thoughts, you are, for all practical purposes, a Solipsist.

And if you are without belief in any gods, you are an atheist.
You misquote me.
In my Original Post I specifically stated that it is "thoughts" that exist & not "my thoughts". A Solipcist does not believe in the thoughts of others, only their own. I have no way of proving these thoughts are my own, nor that I am a specific individual.
Therefore I do not meet the requirements to be labeled a Solipcist.


(Today 07:11 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(Today 07:06 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
I only seek to know my world view classification.
I do not share the belief that everything is unknowable. I know the "process of thinking" we call "thoughts" are real & everything else is unprovable.
I already share the belief that it is reasonable to behave as if this world we perceive is real.
I am curious to know what could compell someone with my world view to "behave" as if the world was an illusion.
Since when is the decision making process compelled to act in a direction harmful to oneself due to lack of information?
I should think when faced with a lack of knowledge human nature would seek the course with the least possible risks?
At what point would I opt for an unknown reality as opposed to a reality that I know exists at the very least in the form of "thoughts"?

I would call you "perpetually skeptic" as sometimes I have been called by some if it weren't for your claims that you know thoughts & the process of thinking are real.

Who you think maintains the word of "atheism" to mean what you may think society deems it to mean is different. Words & labels have multiple meanings. Atheism can & most often in definitions and circles does just mean, lack of a belief. It doesn't have to mean proclaims no god exists. In the range of atheism there is diversions like agnostic atheist/gnostic atheist or sometimes people use the scale of 0-7 in an scale of theistic belief. Others talk about the term in "strong" atheist vs "weak" atheist. You on these scales seemingly would be an agnostic atheist or weak atheist. Or along the "Dawkins scale" a 6? I guess. I mean it would be up to you to determine what you really think.
Your understanding of Atheism contradicts my research.
I do not qualify as an Atheist because:
Atheism means "disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods."
How can I be an Atheist if I do not have any beliefs about the "Existence or Non Existence of God". The key word here is belief.

be·lief/bəˈlēf/
noun
an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.

Do you believe that the claim God Exists "to be a true statement"? No.
Do you believe that the claim God Does not Exist "to be a true statement"? No.

If society would change the meaning of the word Athiesm to mean:
"The acceptance of the possibility that God may or May not exist" then I would be an Atheist.
Where are you seeing the words "my thoughts... Exist"
I made a deliberate effort not to type those words through this entire post & yet you claim to have found it somewhere.
Please indicate where I need to edit it.
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16-01-2016, 06:00 PM
RE: What Am I?
(16-01-2016 05:31 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(16-01-2016 05:26 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Your understanding of Atheism contradicts my research.
I do not qualify as an Atheist because:
Atheism means "disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods."
How can I be an Atheist if I do not have any beliefs about the "Existence or Non Existence of God". The key word here is belief.

be·lief/bəˈlēf/
noun
an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.

You lack a belief in any gods, hence you are atheist.

Quote:Do you believe that the claim God Exists "to be a true statement"? No.
Do you believe that the claim God Does not Exist "to be a true statement"? No.

If society would change the meaning of the word Athiesm to mean:
"The acceptance of the possibility that God may or May not exist" then I would be an Atheist.

That makes you an agnostic atheist.
So now you are changing the meaning of the word Atheism to help classify me?
I appreciate what you are trying to do for me but the the definition of Atheism clearly states "disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods"
It does not state "disbelief or lack of belief in God or gods"
I know God(s) may or may not exist but I just don't believe (accept to be true) any known concept of God.
The flaw lies in what others perceive God to be. Only after you describe what God is will I be able to accept or reject the concept.
If someone did present me with a God concept that I find acceptable as an absolutely true statement I will become a true Theist.

It just occurred to me that if "Thoughts" were considered to be God then I would be a Theist.
I need some time to reflect on this as it has now impacted my world view.
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16-01-2016, 06:06 PM
RE: What Am I?
Blink

I've been following along pretty much since the beginning of the thread...

And I am still no closer to actually understanding Agnostic Shane's point of view or trail of reasoning.

Unsure
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16-01-2016, 06:06 PM
RE: What Am I?
(16-01-2016 05:26 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(16-01-2016 05:11 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  I would call you "perpetually skeptic" as sometimes I have been called by some if it weren't for your claims that you know thoughts & the process of thinking are real.

Who you think maintains the word of "atheism" to mean what you may think society deems it to mean is different. Words & labels have multiple meanings. Atheism can & most often in definitions and circles does just mean, lack of a belief. It doesn't have to mean proclaims no god exists. In the range of atheism there is diversions like agnostic atheist/gnostic atheist or sometimes people use the scale of 0-7 in an scale of theistic belief. Others talk about the term in "strong" atheist vs "weak" atheist. You on these scales seemingly would be an agnostic atheist or weak atheist. Or along the "Dawkins scale" a 6? I guess. I mean it would be up to you to determine what you really think.
Your understanding of Atheism contradicts my research.
I do not qualify as an Atheist because:
Atheism means "disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods."
How can I be an Atheist if I do not have any beliefs about the "Existence or Non Existence of God". The key word here is belief.

be·lief/bəˈlēf/
noun
an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.

Do you believe that the claim God Exists "to be a true statement"? No.
Do you believe that the claim God Does not Exist "to be a true statement"? No.

If society would change the meaning of the word Athiesm to mean:
"The acceptance of the possibility that God may or May not exist" then I would be an Atheist.

That's what "Lacking" means. Not having a believe about the concept.

Chas nor anyone here isn't "changing the definition"

Whatever drives your research and your strict adherence to particular phrases in some dictionary definitions is strange. Dictionaries themselves also don't define words, they're not end all be all guides. Dictionary editors will be the first to express that point. Usage & acceptance among groups are more relevant to language and it is important to remember language is living and fluid. It is shifting over time as long as it's actively being used.

Atheism has many meanings. Out of the things you've stated here, you do fit under the agnostic atheist/weak atheist label. Not having a belief either way is still NOT having a belief. It's lacking one. If you're not actually believing in a God, in essence, you are atheist via this labeling. If you want to deny the label or proclaim it isn't fitting, that's fine and up to you.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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16-01-2016, 06:58 PM
RE: What Am I?
(16-01-2016 04:22 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Here is the claim:
All I can be certain of is "something exists"
Here is the premise:
I call the statement "something exists" a thought based on the meaning of the word thought.
Here is the conclusion.
Therefore I come to the conclusion that a "thought" must exist.

Where lies the flaw in my logic?
What fallacies have I committed?

If a thought, and nothing else, must exist, then you must allow for the possibility that a thought could be the only thing in existence.

So... you've proven that a "thought" can exist independently of anything else?

If a though is the only thing that exists, what does it think about? From where does it get the initial point of reference upon which to form itself?

If it is not possible for only a though to exist, how does one determine what else must exist?

Fappity-fap-fap-fap...

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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16-01-2016, 06:58 PM
RE: What Am I?
(16-01-2016 06:00 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(16-01-2016 05:31 PM)Chas Wrote:  You lack a belief in any gods, hence you are atheist.


That makes you an agnostic atheist.
So now you are changing the meaning of the word Atheism to help classify me?
I appreciate what you are trying to do for me but the the definition of Atheism clearly states "disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods"
It does not state "disbelief or lack of belief in God or gods"
I know God(s) may or may not exist but I just don't believe (accept to be true) any known concept of God.
The flaw lies in what others perceive God to be. Only after you describe what God is will I be able to accept or reject the concept.
If someone did present me with a God concept that I find acceptable as an absolutely true statement I will become a true Theist.

It just occurred to me that if "Thoughts" were considered to be God then I would be a Theist.
I need some time to reflect on this as it has now impacted my world view.

How EXACTLY is it, that you *know* that "gods may exist".
By what process did you come to KNOW this ?
So ... it appears you do believe in a lot more than "thoughts".
Whatever that process was by which you KNOW that gods may exist, you DO *believe* in that also.
Since you KNOW they may exist (somehow ??), provide us with a coherent definition of this thing called a "god" that you KNOW *may exist*.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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16-01-2016, 07:06 PM
RE: What Am I?
(16-01-2016 06:00 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(16-01-2016 05:31 PM)Chas Wrote:  You lack a belief in any gods, hence you are atheist.


That makes you an agnostic atheist.
So now you are changing the meaning of the word Atheism to help classify me?
I appreciate what you are trying to do for me but the the definition of Atheism clearly states "disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods"


Which part of "lack of belief" are you not comprehending? Consider
You've already said you don't have a belief in any god. Facepalm

Quote:It does not state "disbelief or lack of belief in God or gods"

That is a distinction without a difference.
You seem to be ignoring the meaning of the words.

Quote:I know God(s) may or may not exist but I just don't believe (accept to be true) any known concept of God.

There you go, you don't have a belief in the existence of any gods. You are an atheist.

Quote:The flaw lies in what others perceive God to be. Only after you describe what God is will I be able to accept or reject the concept.

There is no flaw. You have no belief in any gods. You are an atheist.

Quote:If someone did present me with a God concept that I find acceptable as an absolutely true statement I will become a true Theist.

If someone presents me with evidence of a god, I will become a theist. Until such time, you and I are both atheists.

Quote:It just occurred to me that if "Thoughts" were considered to be God then I would be a Theist.
I need some time to reflect on this as it has now impacted my world view.

Now you are just being absurd. Facepalm

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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16-01-2016, 07:21 PM
RE: What Am I?
Nihilism motherfucker, do you speak it?

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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16-01-2016, 07:21 PM
RE: What Am I?
(16-01-2016 07:06 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(16-01-2016 06:00 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  So now you are changing the meaning of the word Atheism to help classify me?
I appreciate what you are trying to do for me but the the definition of Atheism clearly states "disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods"


Which part of "lack of belief" are you not comprehending? Consider
You've already said you don't have a belief in any god. Facepalm

Quote:It does not state "disbelief or lack of belief in God or gods"

That is a distinction without a difference.
You seem to be ignoring the meaning of the words.

Quote:I know God(s) may or may not exist but I just don't believe (accept to be true) any known concept of God.

There you go, you don't have a belief in the existence of any gods. You are an atheist.

Quote:The flaw lies in what others perceive God to be. Only after you describe what God is will I be able to accept or reject the concept.

There is no flaw. You have no belief in any gods. You are an atheist.

Quote:If someone did present me with a God concept that I find acceptable as an absolutely true statement I will become a true Theist.

If someone presents me with evidence of a god, I will become a theist. Until such time, you and I are both atheists.

Quote:It just occurred to me that if "Thoughts" were considered to be God then I would be a Theist.
I need some time to reflect on this as it has now impacted my world view.

Now you are just being absurd. Facepalm

He appears to believe in disembodied consciousness. Facepalm
Maybe he's related to COTW. Laugh out load

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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