What Are Your Favorite Contradictions in the Bible, Torah, etc.?
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09-02-2018, 12:31 PM
RE: What Are Your Favorite Contradictions in the Bible, Torah, etc.?
1. The Garden of Eden.
God creates Adam and Eve. They are flawed, factory seconds. God knows they are flawed, factory seconds, because he made 'em. To test out just how hopelessly flawed they are- even though he already knows, because he's omniscient, and even though there was no need to make them flawed in the first place, because he's omnipotent - god decides to prompt them to show their flaws pretty much immediately by tempting them with a tree and an apple, and sending in a snake to tempt them with the tree and the apple, as well.

Hello, Original Sin!

2. The Great Flood
God's fed up. The whole planet's FUBAR. The humans are still as fatally flawed as they were the day he created them. God's disgusted. Even cute little kittens and tiny babies smiling their first true smile don't do it for him anymore, so god decides to wipe the slate clean. He goes for the Ultimate Tabula Rasa and drowns the entire planet. 30 million human beings are slaughtered. God alone knows how many plants and animals, but the animals and plants don't matter, because they weren't made in god's image - whatever that means. The plants and animals just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Tough bikkies. Sucks to be you, cute kitten! Take that, baby fur seal! All because human beings remained as flawed as ever, god was pissed off and didn't like his toys anymore. I remember my son kicking his blocks over just the same way when he had a two year old tantrum. In god's case, it was Justice. In my son's case, it was poor impulse control.

3. The Atonement
God decides to give human beings one last chance to be something other than he created them to be, so he sends himself as his own son down to earth to be a scapegoat remedy for Adam and Eve's Original Sin which has stained every human being via species guilt by association ever since. ( To give that some context, it's like slaughtering every dog in the world for ever more because Cujo had rabies.)
God figures if he crucifies himself/his son, dies and is resurrected, then ascends back to Heaven ( without telling himself as his son self that this is how it will go down), then he - god- will have given himself a reason to overlook the fatal flaws he created human beings with in the first place and allow us to connect with him again. It will give him an excuse to look to us again, maybe take our calls from time to time.

It's a carrot and stick situation though, as it always is with god: if you don’t accept he crucified himself/his son to accept the flaws he created in us in the first place- you still don't get to connect with him. You go to Hell. If you do accept it, you burn in Purgatory- how long depends on how many flaws he created in you. If he only touched you lightly with the ugly stick, you'll come out of Purgatory lightly singed. If he whacked you good and hard with the ugly stick ( remember, he's omniscient and omnipotent, so he knows if you've been bad or good before you've been bad or good, before you were even born and he created you because he's omnipotent and could have made you good right off the bat with negligible effects on Free Will) you'll come out a very crispy critter indeed, but that's ok, because he'll give you a long cool drink of water and eternal bliss by his side, watching him pull the wings off flies and give babies cancer and grandparents dementia. Oh, happy days!

Thankfully, I will be in Hell with all the other atheists and the bulk of humanity who don't accept Original Sin, The Atonement or Jesus as their personal saviour. God doesn't want to know me, and that's ok, because the feeling's mutual. I will die disconnected from god. Considering that ALL of human progress has been created by human beings alone, and much of it by atheists, as scientists tend to be atheists, I have every expectation that Hell will be well lit, have ducted air conditioning, and quite probably a Metaphysical Internet, so we'll be able to talk online with our earthly brethren about how to overcome god's penchant for pulling the wings off flies, giving babies cancer and grandparents dementia. The Metaphysical Internet may depend on where the US Congress goes with Net Neutrality, though, because you can bet the GOP/Dems would cheerfully throttle our content in the interests of national security.

Or more likely, I'll just die and cease to be. An ex-Sushisnake, pushing up daisies.
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09-02-2018, 01:08 PM
What Are Your Favorite Contradictions in the Bible, Torah, etc.?
Matthew places Jesus birth during Herod's reign. Herod died in 4 BC., placing Jesus's birth before 4 BC. Luke, however, states that Jesus was born after 6 AD when Quirinius became governor of Syria. This is at least a nine year discrepancy.

The Synoptics tell us the Last Supper occurred on Passover (Matt 26:19, Mark 14:16, Luke 22:13); however, John says the meal occurred the day before Passover (13:1).

Mark 15:25 says that Jesus was crucified at the third hour. John 19:14-15 says it was already the sixth hour when Jesus stood before the crowd, prior to being led away for crucifixion, placing the crucifixion later than the sixth hour.

In 1 Chron 21:1, it states that Satan incited David to take a census, but according to 2 Sam 24:1 it was God who incited David to do it.

2 Sam 10:18 says David slew 700 Chariots and 40,000 horsemen; 1 Chron 19:18 says 7000 chariots and 40,000 footmen.

Num 33:37-39 indicate that Aaron died in a different location than does Deut 10: 6-7.

2 Sam 6:6 says that Uzzah died at the threshing floor of Nacon; 1 Chron 13:9 says he died at threshing floor of Chidon.

2 Chronicles 21:20 - 22:2 indicates that Ahaziah was 2 years older than his father Jehoram.

Matthew 1:16 says Joseph's father was Jacob, but Luke 3:23 says his father was Heli.

Exodus 3:1 says Jethro was Moses' father-in-law, but Numbers 10:29 and Judges 4:11 say Hobab was the father-in-law of Moses.

In 2 Chron 21:12 King Jehoram gets a letter from Elijah who, according to 2 Kin 3:11, was dead long before the time of Jehoram's reign.

The following passage from Acts 7:14 -16 contains a number of contradictions:

"Then Joseph sent word and invited Jacob his father and all his relatives to come to him, seventy-five persons in all. And Jacob went down to Egypt and there he and our fathers died. From there they were removed to Shechem and laid in the tomb which Abraham had purchased for a sum of money from the sons of Hamor in Shechem."

Actually, only 70 people, not 75, went down to Egypt according to Deut 10:22, Ex 1:5 and Gen 46:27. Also, Abraham did not buy the land, Jacob did. And contrary to the Acts account, only Joseph was buried at Shechem. Jacob was buried in a cave at Machpelah, along with Abraham. (Gen 33:18-19 and Josh 24:32).

There were six generations inclusive between Joram and Jotham, according to 1 Chron 3:11-12. Matthew lists only three generations inclusive between Joram and Jotham, (Matt 1: 8-9).
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09-02-2018, 01:09 PM
What Are Your Favorite Contradictions in the Bible, Torah, etc.?
2 Samuel 6:23 "And Michal the daughter of Saul had no child to the day of her death."
2 Samuel 21:8 "But the king took...the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul"

1 Samuel 31:4-6 Saul killed himself with the help of his armor-bearer.
2 Samuel 21:12 "... on the day the Philistines killed Saul on Gilboa."
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09-02-2018, 01:12 PM
What Are Your Favorite Contradictions in the Bible, Torah, etc.?
Genesis 10:4-5
The sons of Javan: Elishah, Tarshish, the Kittim and the Rodanim. From these the maritime peoples spread out into their territories by their clans within their nations, each with its own language.

Genesis 10:20
These are the sons of Ham by their clans and languages, in their territories and nations.

Genesis 10:31
These are the sons of Shem by their clans and languages, in their territories and nations.

Genesis 11
1 Now the whole world had one language and a common speech.
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09-02-2018, 01:15 PM
What Are Your Favorite Contradictions in the Bible, Torah, etc.?
The NT contradicts the OT and occasionally itself:


Has any man seen God?
NT:
John 1:18 "No man hath seen God at any time."
John 6:46 "Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God [Jesus], he hath seen the Father."
I John 4:12 "No man hath seen God at any time."

Versus: OT

Genesis 32:30 "For I have seen God face to face."
Exodus 33:11 "And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend."
Job 42:5 "I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee."

Does God tempt men?
NT:
James 1:13 "Let no man say . . . I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man."

Versus: OT

Genesis 22:1 "And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham."

Does God approve of human sacrifice?
OT:
Deuteronomy 12:31 "Thou shalt not do so unto the Lord thy God: for every abomination to the Lord, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods."

Versus NT:

I Corinthians 5:7 " . . . For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us."

Has any man ascended to heaven?
No one has ascended into heaven before Jesus - John 3:13
Elijah ascended into heaven - 2 Kings 2:11

How should we treat our parents?

OT:
Ex 20:12 "Honour your father and mother...."
Eph 6:2 "Children, obey your parents for this is right in the Lord."

Versus NT:

Mt 10:35 "For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, ... and a mans foes will be those of his own household."
Mt 19:29 "And every one who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children, for my names sake, will receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life."
Lk 14:26 "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters...he cannot be my disciple."

Is God all-powerful?

Matthew 19:26 "But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, `With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.'"

Versus:

Judges 1:19 "And the Lord was with Judah; and he drove out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron."

There were six generations inclusive between Joram and Jotham - 1 Chron 3:11-12
There were three generations inclusive between Joram and Jotham - Matt 1:8-9

Moses was inarticulate - Ex 4:10
Moses was articulate - Acts 7:22

Should we honor the Sabbath?

Exodus 20:8 "Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy."
Exodus 31:15 "Whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death."
Numbers 15:32,36 "And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. . . . And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses."

Versus:

John 5:16 "And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day."
Colossians 2:16 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holy-day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days."

The following passage from Acts 7:14 -16 contains three contradictions:

"Then Joseph sent word and invited Jacob his father and all his relatives to come to him, 75 persons in all. And Jacob went down to Egypt and there he and our fathers died. From there they were removed to Shechem and laid in the tomb which Abraham had purchased for a sum of money from the sons of Hamor in Shechem."

Contradiction 1:
According to Deut 10:22, Ex 1:5 and Gen 46:27 only 70 people, went down to Egypt. Acts wrongly gives the number of people at 75.

Contradiction 2:
Abraham did not buy the land at Shechem, as incorrectly stated in Acts. Jacob did (Gen 33:18-19).

Contradiction 3:
Contrary to the Acts account, only Joseph was buried at Shechem. Jacob was buried in a cave at Machpelah, along with Abraham (Gen 50:12-14; Josh 24:32).
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09-02-2018, 01:25 PM
What Are Your Favorite Contradictions in the Bible, Torah, etc.?
* In Genesis 2, God sees that Adam is alone, and so creates animals in order that one might be found suitable as a partner for Adam. An all-wise God should have known that none of the animals would have sufficed for this purpose. Also, in Gen 1, animals are created before man. In Gen 2 they are created after man.

* God required a woman to marry her rapist (Deut. 22:28-29)

* God judged a woman's menstrual discharge to be unclean and sinful (Lev 15:19-31).

* Jesus cursed and killed a fig tree that was out of season because he could find no figs on it. (Mark 11:13)

* Jesus stated that Christians are able to drink poison without harm. (Mark 16:18)

* Jesus recommended self-castration (Matt 19:12). Some Christians, including Origen, an early Christian apologist, castrated themselves as a result.

* Biblegod recommended killing rebellious children (Deut 21:18), and Jesus endorsed the practice (Mark 7:10-13; Matthew 15:4-6).

* Science has proved that an animal's skin color and pattern is determined by genetics. Yet the bible claims young animals born into Jacob's flocks were "streaked, speckled and spotted" as a result of Jacob having the animals view certain designs and patterns while breeding (Genesis 30:37-43). It was a common Bronze Age belief that animals derived their skin patterns in this way, and the Bible supports this mistaken notion.

* Leviticus 11:20-23 states that insects have four legs. This is false. All insects have six legs.

* In Lev 14:33-57 God prescribed a voodoo-like remedy for curing a leprous house, involving the sprinkling of potions containing bird blood. Unfortunately, houses do not contract leprosy and God's `remedy' would only serve to more fully contaminate any house thus treated.

* 1 Kin 8:63 states that when Solomon dedicated the temple, he sacrificed 22,000 oxen and 120,000 sheep over a period lasting no longer than a week. This indicates a rate of sacrifice, in the very confined space of the middle court of the temple (30 feet square), of 20,300 animals a day, or 15 per minute, or one every 4 seconds. (Allowing for 24 hour non-stop slaughtering.). In other words, it would have been impossible for this to have occurred as stated in the Bible.
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09-02-2018, 02:11 PM
RE: What Are Your Favorite Contradictions in the Bible, Torah, etc.?
(09-02-2018 01:25 PM)Rachel Wrote:  * Leviticus 11:20-23 states that insects have four legs. This is false. All insects have six legs.

What about the flies that have had two of their legs pulled off by a sadistic God on one of his bad days?

Checkmate, atheists!

Big Grin
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09-02-2018, 02:20 PM
What Are Your Favorite Contradictions in the Bible, Torah, etc.?
(09-02-2018 02:11 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(09-02-2018 01:25 PM)Rachel Wrote:  * Leviticus 11:20-23 states that insects have four legs. This is false. All insects have six legs.

What about the flies that have had two of their legs pulled off by a sadistic God on one of his bad days?

Checkmate, atheists!

Big Grin


Damn! Foiled by your Spinoza-like logic!!
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09-02-2018, 02:50 PM (This post was last modified: 09-02-2018 03:08 PM by RBMG.)
RE: What Are Your Favorite Contradictions in the Bible, Torah, etc.?
(08-02-2018 09:02 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(08-02-2018 07:04 PM)RBMG Wrote:  Seeing as how one only needs a basic grasp of Hebrew to convert to Judaism, I highly doubt the translation changes a whole lot. I think where things differ is it seems like a lot of Jews now days are very lenient in their observance of "the laws." Granted there are some English words that do not exist in Hebrew and vice-versa. Still, not really sure what you're even trying to get at (other than taking the chance to correct me that the Torah is technically in Hebrew... but.. ok?), I doubt there is so much lost in translation that it changes the text to any significant degree.

I will defer to your knowledge on the subject of Jewish conversions and translation accuracy from Hebrew to English. Welcome to the forum.
Okay, you're right, I'm wrong. Now would you like to actually contribute to the thread or you just looking for arguments to start?

(09-02-2018 11:41 AM)Silly Deity Wrote:  
(09-02-2018 11:34 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  You get this type of weird, Orwellian double-speak any time a contradiction comes up. A rational person will acknowledge the contradiction and drop one of the two opposing premises. An apologist will redefine words to the point of being meaningless, but in such a way that they get to feel good.

You can see this with the Trinity (Jesus is both God and the son of God), and with the whole works vs grace thing for getting into heaven. In the first case, you say Jesus is the son of God (as in, God the Father) who is part of a corporate entity known as God (as in, God the Trinity). In the second case you don't get into heaven because of works (cuz the Bible says so), but certain actions (but totally not called "works") are required.

It's so disingenuous. If the question you're ultimately asking yourself is "how can I make everything I believe so pointless so that I can keep on believing it?", you should probably reconsider your basic epistemology.

Apologists' rationalizations merely make the point that what the Bible seems to say is not what it means, which defeats the whole concept of scriptural inerrancy.
This is where any rational person starts to see the fallacies in religion. One can either stick to their guns and find ways to rationalize these contradictions, putting them further into the fundamentalist category as they attempt to understand how they can take the Bible literally... Or, one can begin to see the Bible as a sort of guide or loose set of rules on how to live life peacefully and happily. At this point people start to become some sort of secular Christian, but then you have to ask yourself, if I am not taking this literally, HOW MUCH of it am I to not take literally?

With that being said, if I am only following the values and ideas this book espouses, who is to say that I am required to read THIS specific book to adopt THESE specific values?

This is why I think most, if not all, of today's Christians would be considered heretics back in the Middle Ages... Before that? They'd have been stoned to death in some desert village somewhere in the Middle East. Today, being Christian literally just means you refer to yourself as a Christian, that's pretty much it. I think eventually we will be rid of this silly book, along with most other religious texts, in that, people will follow them so loosely they will eventually cease to matter.
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09-02-2018, 03:04 PM
RE: What Are Your Favorite Contradictions in the Bible, Torah, etc.?
(09-02-2018 02:11 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(09-02-2018 01:25 PM)Rachel Wrote:  * Leviticus 11:20-23 states that insects have four legs. This is false. All insects have six legs.

What about the flies that have had two of their legs pulled off by a sadistic God on one of his bad days?

Checkmate, atheists!

Big Grin

You mean those days all the flies are walks cos he's already ripped their wings off, so he makes 'em stops out of bored spite?
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