What Do Christians Have Against Masturbation?
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31-12-2012, 04:35 AM
RE: What Do Christians Have Against Masturbation?
It's the only kind of sex I've had thus far. And with some of my girlfriends, it transcends mere lust and becomes something truly affectionate. Something loving. I have a difficult time finding a way in which that could possibly be intensified or improved by entering into an established contract.

Seems we don't need God's arangement to be "whole".

Through profound pain comes profound knowledge.
Ridi, Pagliaccio, sul tuo amore infranto! Ridi del duol, che t'avvelena il cor!
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31-12-2012, 05:18 AM
RE: What Do Christians Have Against Masturbation?
Well, I can imagine it'd be great relief to those who actually did wait until they got married, didn't screw around, didn't touch themselves, and then one day, they were finally allowed to fuck with god's approval. I would also say perhaps it's not just affection and sex acts, but the ability to have sex without feeling guilty (for religious folks). Not being religious, I didn't really see the need to wait, though. Seems like a huge waste of time,to not have sex when you want to have sex and could be having sex.
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31-12-2012, 07:24 PM
RE: What Do Christians Have Against Masturbation?
(31-12-2012 03:34 AM)Misanthropik Wrote:  God made sexual pleasure to be enjoyed between a married man and a married woman.

But do they also have to married to each other?
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01-01-2013, 01:59 AM (This post was last modified: 01-01-2013 02:15 AM by Janus.)
RE: What Do Christians Have Against Masturbation?
(30-12-2012 04:36 PM)germanyt Wrote:  You came to TTA to ask a bunch of Christians why they oppose masturbation?


It is a sin because it is self-satisfying.


That's more a Calvinist/Reformed/Amishy view on things, germanyt. Catholics don't have such qualms. Commit murder and a half dozen Hail Marys and Our Fathers will take care of it... Masturbate, and the punishment will probably be twice as severe!
A whole dozen Our Fathers and Hail Marys!

And private tuition by the pastor...
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01-01-2013, 05:47 AM
RE: What Do Christians Have Against Masturbation?
(31-12-2012 07:24 PM)Rüdiger Wrote:  
(31-12-2012 03:34 AM)Misanthropik Wrote:  God made sexual pleasure to be enjoyed between a married man and a married woman.

But do they also have to married to each other?
Touche. Drinking Beverage

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02-01-2013, 05:34 PM
RE: What Do Christians Have Against Masturbation?
To paraphrase Woody Allen, the concept of "original sin" would essentially define Christian masturbation as "sex with someone you hate." See my signature below.

"To hate man and worship God seems to be the sum of all creeds." — Robert Ingersoll
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02-01-2013, 06:08 PM
RE: What Do Christians Have Against Masturbation?
(02-01-2013 05:34 PM)Human Being Wrote:  To paraphrase Woody Allen, the concept of "original sin" would essentially define Christian masturbation as "sex with someone you hate." See my signature below.


Well then since I love myself I'm not masturbating.

And I have my personnel for that anyway.
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02-01-2013, 11:11 PM
RE: What Do Christians Have Against Masturbation?
(31-12-2012 05:18 AM)amyb Wrote:  Well, I can imagine it'd be great relief to those who actually did wait until they got married, didn't screw around, didn't touch themselves, and then one day, they were finally allowed to fuck with god's approval. I would also say perhaps it's not just affection and sex acts, but the ability to have sex without feeling guilty (for religious folks). Not being religious, I didn't really see the need to wait, though. Seems like a huge waste of time,to not have sex when you want to have sex and could be having sex.


Actually this subject was covered on 1000 ways to die. They showed a couple of occassions in countries that have a bad outlook on sex before marriage and masturbation, people die as a result of having sex for their first time.
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02-01-2013, 11:51 PM
RE: What Do Christians Have Against Masturbation?
(02-01-2013 11:11 PM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  people die as a result of having sex for their first time.


I didn't, thank God (...), and I plan on dying as a result of having sex for the last time...
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03-01-2013, 01:54 AM
RE: What Do Christians Have Against Masturbation?
I only read part of the replies, so forgive me if I'm repeating.

It's a retention mechanic. No, not sperm retention. Worshiper retention. What, doesn't it seem like forbidding masturbation would retain worshipers?

Allow me to explain...

For most of us, belonging to a group makes us feel good. What's more, if we see our neighbor belonging to a different group, we tend to envy that. Even worse, if his group is better than our group, we definitely envy it. We might even quit our group to join his. That would be bad for the group we leave as its membership would decline. If lots of people leave, if everyone leaves, then the group ceases to exist. Definitely bad for the group.

For a religion (or any other group) to thrive, it needs faithful believers/loyal members. If those believers/members are always jumping ship to join better religions/groups, then the crappy religion/group will cease to exist.

So it's survival of the fittest, applied to religions (how ironic is that?).

So all successful groups have some kind of built-in mechanism for the members of that group to feel superior to everyone who isn't a member. Sometimes it's very deliberate, using elaborate ceremonies or rituals such as secret handshakes, passwords, etc. (Shriners, Masons, every religion). Sometimes it's less deliberate (democrats and republicans always feel superior to the other guys even without any deliberate rituals).

Here's the point. Sometimes the superiority comes from denying ourselves the stuff that "inferior" people lack the willpower to deny themselves (vows of poverty, chastity, etc. are the perfect way to express these self-denial superiority mechanisms for the group members who undertake such vows). Sometimes it's nothing more than the power we give to our group (I feel superior to non-chess-players every time I go to my local chess club because we are the intellectual elite, even though we never actually say that or anything like it).

Religions are the best at building all kinds of superiority mechanisms. For Christianity, the whole "We're saved and you're not" is an extreme version of this. Compounded with "We go to heaven and you burn in hell" to paint clear and decisive repercussions for being in the wrong group. Every ritual, prayer, sacrament, baptism, hymns, ceremony, etc., all serve to add to the "we're superior because we do these things and you don't" mentality. Every voluntary sacrifice such as tithing, missionary work, donating time or money to church events, denying oneself the simple pleasures in life (because the church says to), etc., is all part of building this superiority separation between the faithful and everyone else.

We can't deny ourselves food or drink (at least not for long), we can't deny ourselves air, etc. So we deny the things we can live without. Even better, if we can somehow label the activity as "sinful" then our members will gladly deny themselves the activity. For example, we could try to get our followers to deny themselves the act of brushing their teeth. That would be a tough sell for most people. So we could label it as "sinful" and sell it to more of them, but that might still be tough since it would be hard to convince people that basic oral hygiene is a sin.

On the other hand, masturbation is a "guilty pleasure". We don't go to work and tell our coworkers about our masturbation. We don't share it with others. It's a taboo subject for discussion and for most people it's embarrassing to talk about. If nothing else, it's embarrassing to admit that we're crappy at actually getting laid. For whatever reasons, most of us are uncomfortable about the subject even outside of religion.

This makes it a really easy thing for religions to sell it as "sinful" because, unlike brushing our teeth, masturbation already has a secretive, embarrassing component to build on.

So, all religions thrive on making their followers feel special and self-denial is a key element of that. Self-denial of necessities is counter-productive and self-denial of basic stuff is hard to sell, but masturbation is low-hanging fruit for the club leaders.

That's why so many religions have similar prohibitions against masturbation, all arrived at separately but always for the same reason.

Worshiper retention.

QED

"Whores perform the same function as priests, but far more thoroughly." - Robert A. Heinlein
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