What, Exactly, is "Free Will?"
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
24-09-2013, 10:08 AM
RE: What, Exactly, is "Free Will?"
I used to believe in the idea of "free will" but I really don't anymore. I've come to believe it's just an illusion.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Momsurroundedbyboys's post
24-09-2013, 10:10 AM
RE: What, Exactly, is "Free Will?"
(24-09-2013 10:08 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I used to believe in the idea of "free will" but I really don't anymore. I've come to believe it's just an illusion.

Of course.

You had no choice but to come to that conclusion.

Drinking Beverage

... this is my signature!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like cjlr's post
24-09-2013, 11:39 AM
RE: What, Exactly, is "Free Will?"
(24-09-2013 09:41 AM)Philosoraptor Wrote:  
(24-09-2013 08:41 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  You have two choices here. Either admit there are other verses that support free will and that you are being one-sided in your response, or admit that in this area the whole Bible, all 66 books, are consistent and unified in teaching predestination, and help Christians affirm that this one doctrine did not change over the centuries and that the Bible is consistent.

Yes, there are other verses that support free will. Which leads us to the conclusion that the Bible is contradictory on the issue of free will. How do you comment on that?

You have two possible conclusions:

1) The Bible has contradictions on the issue 2) The Bible is univocal on the issue and some interpreters are in error, some are accurate.

Someone who is practicing hermeneutics doesn't look at separate verses and draw hasty conclusions without historical and textual context, etc. If you'd like, I can direct you to some tools for carefully interpreting the scriptures.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-09-2013, 12:39 PM
RE: What, Exactly, is "Free Will?"
(24-09-2013 11:39 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
(24-09-2013 09:41 AM)Philosoraptor Wrote:  Yes, there are other verses that support free will. Which leads us to the conclusion that the Bible is contradictory on the issue of free will. How do you comment on that?

You have two possible conclusions:

1) The Bible has contradictions on the issue 2) The Bible is univocal on the issue and some interpreters are in error, some are accurate.

Someone who is practicing hermeneutics doesn't look at separate verses and draw hasty conclusions without historical and textual context, etc. If you'd like, I can direct you to some tools for carefully interpreting the scriptures.

And I can direct you to some tools for carefully interpreting Greek mythology. Drinking Beverage

Christian myths, Greek myths, Norse myths, whatever.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Chas's post
24-09-2013, 01:16 PM
 
RE: What, Exactly, is "Free Will?"
(24-09-2013 11:39 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  You have two possible conclusions:

1) The Bible has contradictions on the issue 2) The Bible is univocal on the issue and some interpreters are in error, some are accurate.

Someone who is practicing hermeneutics doesn't look at separate verses and draw hasty conclusions without historical and textual context, etc. If you'd like, I can direct you to some tools for carefully interpreting the scriptures.

Excuses, excuses. Drinking Beverage

If the Bible were a true and consistent book, it wouldn't need an army of apologists and interpreters to defend it. And they wouldn't all have different views on the issues. Whenever Christian apologists are confronted with a contradiction, sooner or later they resort to the "out of context" argument. Yet interestingly, "God is love," "Love is patient," or "God so loved the world," are phrases that are never out of context.

The tools you would direct me to probably agree with your own view. Then there would be tools that teach different doctrines, depending on which denomination the author belongs to.

You know, I once asked a theologian with a Ph.D. (he is a Baptist) how he interprets the Bible verses that suggest salvation by works (I think it was Jesus's dialogue with the rich young man (Matt. 19:16-19), when Jesus told him that he must "keep the commandments"). He responded with something along the lines of, "These verses are tricky, but Paul says..." Do you see how much a Christian can rationalize the Bible in order to make it fit into his doctrine? Even the supposed words of Jesus are subordinated to those of Apostate Paul, simply because his teaching is more appealing to him. That's why Paul "abolished" the Law - he made it a rebranded version of Judaism for Gentiles, without all those commandments that would make it unappealing to them.

Therefore, I choose conclusion 1).
Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Philosoraptor's post
24-09-2013, 01:58 PM
RE: What, Exactly, is "Free Will?"
(24-09-2013 01:16 PM)Philosoraptor Wrote:  
(24-09-2013 11:39 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  You have two possible conclusions:

1) The Bible has contradictions on the issue 2) The Bible is univocal on the issue and some interpreters are in error, some are accurate.

Someone who is practicing hermeneutics doesn't look at separate verses and draw hasty conclusions without historical and textual context, etc. If you'd like, I can direct you to some tools for carefully interpreting the scriptures.

Excuses, excuses. Drinking Beverage

If the Bible were a true and consistent book, it wouldn't need an army of apologists and interpreters to defend it. And they wouldn't all have different views on the issues. Whenever Christian apologists are confronted with a contradiction, sooner or later they resort to the "out of context" argument. Yet interestingly, "God is love," "Love is patient," or "God so loved the world," are phrases that are never out of context.

The tools you would direct me to probably agree with your own view. Then there would be tools that teach different doctrines, depending on which denomination the author belongs to.

You know, I once asked a theologian with a Ph.D. (he is a Baptist) how he interprets the Bible verses that suggest salvation by works (I think it was Jesus's dialogue with the rich young man (Matt. 19:16-19), when Jesus told him that he must "keep the commandments"). He responded with something along the lines of, "These verses are tricky, but Paul says..." Do you see how much a Christian can rationalize the Bible in order to make it fit into his doctrine? Even the supposed words of Jesus are subordinated to those of Apostate Paul, simply because his teaching is more appealing to him. That's why Paul "abolished" the Law - he made it a rebranded version of Judaism for Gentiles, without all those commandments that would make it unappealing to them.

Therefore, I choose conclusion 1).

I think you may have confused "tricky for people who rush to conclusions" with "simple and clear in context". BB disagrees with you, by the way, urging us all not to add our presentism bias(es) to our study of ancient books.

I'm sorry, but for me, the Bible is simple and clear on every, not just most, important issues of life, faith and atheism. But you are blowing smoke at me if you deny Christianity is also a bit of a mystery religion for whom Jesus said only its adherents would "get it". The Bible says (and it is fulfilled here among you people--hear me!) that scoffers would mock but not understand...
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-09-2013, 02:11 PM
RE: What, Exactly, is "Free Will?"
(24-09-2013 01:58 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  The Bible says (and it is fulfilled here among you people--hear me!) that scoffers would mock but not understand...

That's what preteens say about Justin Bieber. Dodgy

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Chas's post
25-09-2013, 12:44 AM
RE: What, Exactly, is "Free Will?"
(24-09-2013 01:58 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  The Bible says (and it is fulfilled here among you people--hear me!) that scoffers would mock but not understand...

[Image: 38994-Thats-just-your-opinion-man-Bi-Z1aR.jpeg]

[Image: E3WvRwZ.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-09-2013, 01:06 AM
RE: What, Exactly, is "Free Will?"
(24-09-2013 01:58 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  The Bible says (and it is fulfilled here among you people--hear me!) that scoffers would mock but not understand...
The Koran says that as well. For predictive quality it's laughable. People from other religions back when Christianity was created would mock Christianity, especially before it became mainstream.

“Forget Jesus, the stars died so you could be born.” - Lawrence M. Krauss
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-09-2013, 02:36 AM
RE: What, Exactly, is "Free Will?"
it is funny how everyone is now consciously rejecting free will for what it became all evil wills

they fancy that by killing freedom truth they would gain smthg to invest in whatever powers they got on everything to force more directly for their eternal ass out

they think from the illusion that truth freedom is only objective, so if they stay out of everything while forcing it by uniting their powers as one out of everything, truth freedom cant do a thing

while truth freedom is objective only bc of objective rights, but truth freedom is infinite superiority so only powerful in free spaces, as if they could fancy of avoiding becoming more physical then physics
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: