What, Exactly, is "Free Will?"
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
27-11-2014, 01:56 PM (This post was last modified: 27-11-2014 01:59 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: What, Exactly, is "Free Will?"
(27-11-2014 09:07 AM)Superluminal Wrote:  What most people think of as free will does not actually exist. There is nothing going on inside our brains at the subatomic level that could provide for this without resorting to magic. In the end, your brain is a biological computer. That is rather unpalatable to many people but true nonetheless.

I'm just the GUI. Big Grin

The Chazzman turned me onto this.



#sigh
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-11-2014, 11:16 AM
RE: What, Exactly, is "Free Will?"
(18-09-2013 11:20 AM)guitar_nut Wrote:  There's been a lot of chat about free will lately. Free will is often used in debates to absolve a god of any responsibility for its creations.

Rapists? Simply exercising free will. God will not interfere.
Murderers? Simply exercising free will. God will not interfere.

I'm wondering how, exactly, a theist defines free will, since it's such an important component of their worldview. I think that the value and power of free will often gets exaggerated in order to strengthen an argument. For example, what I want to do is not always an option. I'm stuck with having to accept what I can do. In that case, my 'will' is not free, but is instead a compromise between what I want and what I can realistically do.

I personally define free will as the following:
The ability to perform an action based on your available options and personal abilities.

I give it the following limitations:
1. Free will can be taken away by the strong;
2. Free will is not equal among individuals;
3. Free will does not mean unlimited choices;

I always struggled with the following:
1. God allows the free will of the strong to take precedence over the free will of the weak;
2. God determines the limitations of your free will (for example, children cannot overpower an adult attacker);
3. Preventing an attacker from harming someone else would be an infringement on the free will of the attacker;
4. Giving a victim the temporary superhuman ability to escape an attacker would also an infringement on the free will of the attacker;
5. To quote Hitchens (I think): Free will cannot be 'given,' or else it's not actually free will;

Is free will really that great? If free will is simply the option to chose between available options (which you have no control over), why is it such a favorite argument for theists?

This all, of course, ignores neuroscience suggesting we have no free will at all!

FREEWILL is the God given non material Entity and privledge our Creator gives to all of us. It allows us complete free reign on HOW we want to live our lives and choices that allow us a great deal of autonomy because our Creator wanted us to be NON-robotic and also to CHOOSE whether we return his love back to him freely and without coercion just as our earthly Parents hope we will too.

The Founders of our Nation also wanted the liberty of FreeWill BUT within the confines of civil living , the boundaries of morality and high ethics, and never to be used outside of these parameters. Sadly today, we have many people who take advantage of our Freedoms and twist them to get what they desire which isn't always good nor moral. Its the same with our God given Moral Consciences .... we have these to sound an internal alarm when we want to live in accordance to our own dictates and urges ...but we conveniently veto our moral conscience so we can maintain our Narcissitic Nature which cries out to be filled instead of excersising Self Control which ends up making us feel good about ourselves . WHen our Nation started becoming centered on Humanisms ideals with Man in charge .... that about when we started morally imploding as a Nation. Some decades later... we readily see how Man hurts himself and Others thru the wrongful implementation of our Free Will. It will become worse and worse . The only answer is a total return to God and his moral mandates to protect us...but alas, that's too much of a kill joy to our desired 'fun' isn't it (?) .
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-11-2014, 11:23 AM
RE: What, Exactly, is "Free Will?"
You do know that in the Holy Bible of your religion, God interferes with supposed free will, right? In Exodus, he explicitly says to Moses that he will harden the heart of the pharoah when Moses shows him the snake, unleashes plagues, etc.

Some free will you're promised. Tongue
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-11-2014, 11:37 AM
RE: What, Exactly, is "Free Will?"
(28-11-2014 11:23 AM)Kaepora Gaebora Wrote:  You do know that in the Holy Bible of your religion, God interferes with supposed free will, right? In Exodus, he explicitly says to Moses that he will harden the heart of the pharoah when Moses shows him the snake, unleashes plagues, etc.

Some free will you're promised. Tongue

Sure God can intercede in history and our lives to bring about the desires of his Will for the betterment of Mankind or his devouted Followers to accomplish his purposes. But on a daily living basis, he wont step in to blow up the pen of a hatefilled Atheist who writes vile and disgusting things for public consumption. Good thing huh ? He will allow freewill choice even if it is meant for evil. He especially allows freewill choice for Man to choose to draw nearer to himself or to become further enthralled with Self . Are you ok with God existing or do u see that as an infringement on yourself ?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-11-2014, 11:44 AM
RE: What, Exactly, is "Free Will?"
(28-11-2014 11:37 AM)Im a humble little Theist Wrote:  
(28-11-2014 11:23 AM)Kaepora Gaebora Wrote:  You do know that in the Holy Bible of your religion, God interferes with supposed free will, right? In Exodus, he explicitly says to Moses that he will harden the heart of the pharoah when Moses shows him the snake, unleashes plagues, etc.

Some free will you're promised. Tongue

Sure God can intercede in history and our lives to bring about the desires of his Will for the betterment of Mankind or his devouted Followers to accomplish his purposes. But on a daily living basis, he wont step in to blow up the pen of a hatefilled Atheist who writes vile and disgusting things for public consumption. Good thing huh ? He will allow freewill choice even if it is meant for evil. He especially allows freewill choice for Man to choose to draw nearer to himself or to become further enthralled with Self . Are you ok with God existing or do u see that as an infringement on yourself ?

Nor, apparently, will he step in and stop an ignorant "humble" theist from making a fool of himself, regularly. Weeping

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-11-2014, 11:50 AM
RE: What, Exactly, is "Free Will?"
(28-11-2014 11:37 AM)Im a humble little Theist Wrote:  
(28-11-2014 11:23 AM)Kaepora Gaebora Wrote:  You do know that in the Holy Bible of your religion, God interferes with supposed free will, right? In Exodus, he explicitly says to Moses that he will harden the heart of the pharoah when Moses shows him the snake, unleashes plagues, etc.

Some free will you're promised. Tongue

Sure God can intercede in history and our lives to bring about the desires of his Will for the betterment of Mankind or his devouted Followers to accomplish his purposes. But on a daily living basis, he wont step in to blow up the pen of a hatefilled Atheist who writes vile and disgusting things for public consumption. Good thing huh ? He will allow freewill choice even if it is meant for evil. He especially allows freewill choice for Man to choose to draw nearer to himself or to become further enthralled with Self . Are you ok with God existing or do u see that as an infringement on yourself ?

And you didn't address anything I said. God in the Bible directly and deliberately made pharoah harden his heart so he would not listen to whatever Moses said, which actually works against spreading the word of his existence. Some fine work going he did in ensuring human kind acknowledged he existed.

Oh and then there is the supposed slaughtering of his chosen people for merely whining, putting them into slavery, telling Moses to murder one of his sons, mass genocide via flood or slaughter of the local tribes of Israel, killing children, making women of conquests into sex slaves, circumsizing penises, and on and on. Good job on ensuring the welfare of humanity! Thumbsup
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-11-2014, 12:14 PM
RE: What, Exactly, is "Free Will?"
For thinking people, what is generally referred to as "will" is actually "judgement". We base our beliefs and actions upon judgement of evidence (in the case of beliefs) and judgements of what is the best course of action to take (in the case of actions), not upon our "will" (free, or otherwise). The only actions that are based upon "free will" are "impulses". True, an activity might begin as the "desire" or "will" to engage in the activity, but then, it is weighed in our thoughts as to its advisability or rationality. "Impulse" on the other hand, is activity that is not weighed as to its advisability or rationality.

The same is true of beliefs. Thinking people examine a potential belief, critically, before accepting it as true--or false. Non-thinking people base their beliefs on their "will to believe", generally accepting the idea expressed in Hebrews 1:11 "faith is the evidence of things not seen". Incidentally, accepting this passage as valid could lead one to conclude that wanting to believe that your significant other is being faithful to you is better evidence than the love letter from his girlfriend that you found in his pocket.

Free Will may exist, but it is not a very good thing upon which to base one's beliefs or actions.

If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities.--Voltaire.

"To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." --Thomas Paine.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-11-2014, 01:36 PM
RE: What, Exactly, is "Free Will?"
(28-11-2014 11:44 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(28-11-2014 11:37 AM)Im a humble little Theist Wrote:  Sure God can intercede in history and our lives to bring about the desires of his Will for the betterment of Mankind or his devouted Followers to accomplish his purposes. But on a daily living basis, he wont step in to blow up the pen of a hatefilled Atheist who writes vile and disgusting things for public consumption. Good thing huh ? He will allow freewill choice even if it is meant for evil. He especially allows freewill choice for Man to choose to draw nearer to himself or to become further enthralled with Self . Are you ok with God existing or do u see that as an infringement on yourself ?

Nor, apparently, will he step in and stop an ignorant "humble" theist from making a fool of himself, regularly. Weeping

No one is forcing you to dialogue with me so quit with the hatred, hostility, and lowlife behavior.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Im a humble little Theist's post
28-11-2014, 01:42 PM (This post was last modified: 28-11-2014 01:50 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: What, Exactly, is "Free Will?"
(28-11-2014 01:36 PM)Im a humble little Theist Wrote:  
(28-11-2014 11:44 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Nor, apparently, will he step in and stop an ignorant "humble" theist from making a fool of himself, regularly. Weeping

No one is forcing you to dialogue with me so quit with the hatred, hostility, and lowlife behavior.
Did you really think you were going to come here with your crap and people think it made any sense ? How delusional are you ? You are in a nut-house, right ?

No one can "dialogue" with anyone as stupid as you. You are too stupid to hate or even raise anyone's blood pressure about. All you do is engender pity.
Tell ya what. You stop posting shit that's is worthy only of a moron, and I'll think about not responding. No one will hold their breath. You STLL haven't answered the question I asked about how high or low probability has to be before you jump to your god of the gaps.

And you still haven't responded to my list of quotes from the "Founders" you CLAIMED believed in the gods, and didn't. You really cherry-pick don't you. Anything inconvenient you ignore. Did Jebus teach you to be so intellectually honest ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Bucky Ball's post
28-11-2014, 01:42 PM
RE: What, Exactly, is "Free Will?"
(28-11-2014 11:16 AM)Im a humble little Theist Wrote:  FREEWILL is the God given non material Entity and privledge our Creator gives to all of us. It allows us complete free reign on HOW we want to live our lives and choices that allow us a great deal of autonomy because our Creator wanted us to be NON-robotic
and of course it is those Bad souls that choose to do evil things.

Hmmm, who made the bad souls?

(28-11-2014 11:16 AM)Im a humble little Theist Wrote:  and also to CHOOSE whether we return his love back to him freely and without coercion just as our earthly Parents hope we will too.
Our parents tend to earn our love by building a two way relationship with us, talking to us, listening to us, supporting us.

It seems that if there is a god then it is ignoring us. We can't have a relationship with an invisible, silent, unobservable thing. Without a relationship, we can't love.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: