What, Exactly, is "Free Will?"
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07-01-2015, 05:50 PM
RE: What, Exactly, is "Free Will?"
(02-01-2015 01:37 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Dennett's interesting take on free will based on his concept of an "intentional stance".

The truth about free will: Does it actually exist?

I find Dennett's ideas insightful; quite clear and logical. He sees that explanations exist on multiple levels. His collaborations with Hofstadter (e.g. The Mind's I) are well worth reading.

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07-01-2015, 06:31 PM
RE: What, Exactly, is "Free Will?"
(07-01-2015 05:50 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(02-01-2015 01:37 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Dennett's interesting take on free will based on his concept of an "intentional stance".

The truth about free will: Does it actually exist?

I find Dennett's ideas insightful; quite clear and logical. He sees that explanations exist on multiple levels. His collaborations with Hofstadter (e.g. The Mind's I) are well worth reading.

The little known The User Illusion: Cutting Consciousness Down to Size by Tor Nørretranders is also quite good.

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07-01-2015, 06:53 PM
RE: What, Exactly, is "Free Will?"
I feel bad for poor Will.
He must get locked up a lot, I'm always hearing about free Will.
When he's not locked up people are always firing at Will.
Let's give Will a break.


Facepalm Sorry, I couldn't help it.
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07-01-2015, 07:08 PM
RE: What, Exactly, is "Free Will?"
(07-01-2015 06:31 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(07-01-2015 05:50 PM)Chas Wrote:  I find Dennett's ideas insightful; quite clear and logical. He sees that explanations exist on multiple levels. His collaborations with Hofstadter (e.g. The Mind's I) are well worth reading.

The little known The User Illusion: Cutting Consciousness Down to Size by Tor Nørretranders is also quite good.

I'll check that out, thanks. Thumbsup

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07-01-2015, 07:12 PM
RE: What, Exactly, is "Free Will?"
(07-01-2015 02:18 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(02-01-2015 02:14 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  I don't recall that his "Possibilian" identity was ever raised in the context of his analysis of decision making. The term "Free Will" is a hold-over from Medieval Philosophy and Moral Theology. It's basically meaningless. In Moral Theology an act, to be sinful, has to be "freely chosen", which includes ALL the elements being in consciousness, so a "properly formed conscience" can weigh them, and THEN a choice is made to go down a certain path. It has been demonstrated by science that never happens. So if "free will" is now to be made relevant again as a term, it's assumptions have to be spelled out.

I would respond that free will wasn't "invented" in recent millennia but rather redefined in the light of Christian thinkers discussing deterministic theology and philosophy. While I concede that many people are beyond some levels of help for certain behaviors and that addictions and compulsions are real, the Bible states that people are responsible for their moral choices and will be judged, and Christians whether they adhere to free will or determinism/predestination agree on this point.

Redefined from what, and when ? Where EXACTLY does the Bible say that ?

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07-01-2015, 08:06 PM
RE: What, Exactly, is "Free Will?"
(07-01-2015 02:18 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(02-01-2015 02:14 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  I don't recall that his "Possibilian" identity was ever raised in the context of his analysis of decision making. The term "Free Will" is a hold-over from Medieval Philosophy and Moral Theology. It's basically meaningless. In Moral Theology an act, to be sinful, has to be "freely chosen", which includes ALL the elements being in consciousness, so a "properly formed conscience" can weigh them, and THEN a choice is made to go down a certain path. It has been demonstrated by science that never happens. So if "free will" is now to be made relevant again as a term, it's assumptions have to be spelled out.

I would respond that free will wasn't "invented" in recent millennia but rather redefined in the light of Christian thinkers discussing deterministic theology and philosophy. While I concede that many people are beyond some levels of help for certain behaviors and that addictions and compulsions are real, the Bible states that people are responsible for their moral choices and will be judged, and Christians whether they adhere to free will or determinism/predestination agree on this point.

"The Bible states......." Lol. As if anything written in the Bible should be taken seriously. Rolleyes You're such a kidder. Laughat

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07-01-2015, 11:15 PM
RE: What, Exactly, is "Free Will?"
(07-01-2015 08:06 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  
(07-01-2015 02:18 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I would respond that free will wasn't "invented" in recent millennia but rather redefined in the light of Christian thinkers discussing deterministic theology and philosophy. While I concede that many people are beyond some levels of help for certain behaviors and that addictions and compulsions are real, the Bible states that people are responsible for their moral choices and will be judged, and Christians whether they adhere to free will or determinism/predestination agree on this point.

"The Bible states......." Lol. As if anything written in the Bible should be taken seriously. Rolleyes You're such a kidder. Laughat

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07-01-2015, 11:24 PM
RE: What, Exactly, is "Free Will?"
(07-01-2015 11:15 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  What is your untimate authority? Consider

Untiman, silly goose.

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07-01-2015, 11:28 PM
RE: What, Exactly, is "Free Will?"
(07-01-2015 06:53 PM)pablo Wrote:  I feel bad for poor Will.
He must get locked up a lot, I'm always hearing about free Will.
When he's not locked up people are always firing at Will.
Let's give Will a break.


Facepalm Sorry, I couldn't help it.

Don't worry, I'm Ok with it.

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08-01-2015, 10:02 AM
RE: What, Exactly, is "Free Will?"
(07-01-2015 07:12 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(07-01-2015 02:18 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I would respond that free will wasn't "invented" in recent millennia but rather redefined in the light of Christian thinkers discussing deterministic theology and philosophy. While I concede that many people are beyond some levels of help for certain behaviors and that addictions and compulsions are real, the Bible states that people are responsible for their moral choices and will be judged, and Christians whether they adhere to free will or determinism/predestination agree on this point.

Redefined from what, and when ? Where EXACTLY does the Bible say that ?

Redefined from what I'm sure were talks forever on the subject, long before the Middle Ages. I imagine people have debated free will/predestination/determinism forever. The whole subject came up again with Pavlov and often without any theology in the discussion. But the theological summa of free will and predestination simply focused the talk in the West and gave it some terms and definitions, that's all.

Where exactly does the Bible say people will be assessed for their good and evil behaviors and moral codes? Is that what you're asking, whether the Bible teaches men will be judged?

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