What, Exactly, is "Free Will?"
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19-09-2013, 08:25 AM
RE: What, Exactly, is "Free Will?"
they are done of evil means to abuse what a person would say, true persons

u r acting as if u alone know this time life everywhere, when everyone know shitty but they dont act like they got anything or that it is of any value by its fact

wat matter is the end and urs is obvious to me
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19-09-2013, 08:30 AM
RE: What, Exactly, is "Free Will?"
(19-09-2013 08:25 AM)absols Wrote:  they are done of evil means to abuse what a person would say, true persons

u r acting as if u alone know this time life everywhere, when everyone know shitty but they dont act like they got anything or that it is of any value by its fact

wat matter is the end and urs is obvious to me

En français, s'il vous plaît. Yes

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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19-09-2013, 08:34 AM
RE: What, Exactly, is "Free Will?"
hey go google u have some readings to do

we are having a conversation here u r not welcome
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19-09-2013, 08:36 AM
RE: What, Exactly, is "Free Will?"
(19-09-2013 08:34 AM)absols Wrote:  hey go google u have some readings to do

we are having a conversation here u r not welcome

Some of us are trying to have a conversation. You do not seem to be one of them.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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19-09-2013, 08:46 AM
RE: What, Exactly, is "Free Will?"
hey crazy bitch, here is real when u cant see that me and evolutionkills were speaking on certain intellectual level directly, u cant pretend that u ever have any conversation or even try to pretend
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19-09-2013, 08:50 AM
RE: What, Exactly, is "Free Will?"
(19-09-2013 08:46 AM)absols Wrote:  hey crazy bitch, here is real when u cant see that me and evolutionkills were speaking on certain intellectual level directly, u cant pretend that u ever have any conversation or even try to pretend

This conversation?
EvolutionKills Wrote:This is why I don't attempt to type in any other language besides English, I'm more than well aware that I would be terrible at it. Suck it up man, your English sucks even by the almost nonexistent standards of the internet...

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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19-09-2013, 08:52 AM
RE: What, Exactly, is "Free Will?"
merdas, here now just the post before immediately before fuck u
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19-09-2013, 09:11 AM
RE: What, Exactly, is "Free Will?"
(19-09-2013 08:52 AM)absols Wrote:  merdas, here now just the post before immediately before fuck u

What? Maybe you should try that in French.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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19-09-2013, 09:20 AM
RE: What, Exactly, is "Free Will?"
Un clown est assis sur un trône fait de sucrerie tandis que ses larmes d'acide révèlent un monde secret sous les pierres de son château couvert de mousse.

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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19-09-2013, 09:25 AM
RE: What, Exactly, is "Free Will?"
(18-09-2013 01:59 PM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  I never bothered to think about the concept of “free will” until a few years ago. It didn’t seen important a concept to me outside of religions. I have thought about the Christian’s concept of it a little, as it seems very problematic when adding “God” to the equation, but outside of religion, I just thought of it as actions we choose or choose not to take. Not a great mystery.

Then, a few years back I randomly started thinking about it in real life. The more I thought about it the more it seemed it couldn’t be real, but would still seem to feel real nonetheless. These where my basic thoughts.

Take any choice you’ve ever made in your live, no matter how small. In fact smaller ones are simpler to consider, because there’d be less to consider. I’ll use the example of a choice to purchase a package of pencils. I chose one over the other then took them and paid for them. Why did I pick package “A” over package “B”, and more importantly, did I really have a choice over it.

The answer seems to be an obvious, “yes, of course I had a choice”. But If I had it to do over again would I have made a different choice? Could I have even been able to make a different choice? Well, if I go to the store tomorrow then yeah, but what if I was in that exact same situation, I would be making a different choice under different conditions? To consider whether or not we really have “free will” we have to consider whether we can make a different choice in the exact same situation. What if every single factor in the universe was exactly the same as it had been at that moment. Every atom in the exact same place and all energy doing exactly the same thing as it was doing at that exact moment. Every atom of my body and every structure of my brain right down to the electrons in the exact same place. Exactly the same thoughts I had been thinking just prior to picking that package “A”. Every thought and experience I had had up until that moment in lead me to choice package A. The neurons in my brain were firing in a way that led me to pick package “A”.

The only way I could have made a different choice is if at some point, from the scenario of the universe being exactly as it was, at least one thing was different. A neuron didn’t fire, or an extra one did (just as an example). But even in that example the only way those neurons could have fired, or not fired would depend on the events that preceded them, but those would all be exactly the same as in the original scenario, so they couldn’t have fired in any different way. If in that exact same moment I could only have done exactly what I did. We all realize this really. We think sometimes, “If I could just relive that moment in my past I would have done it differently, said something else”. But if we got to relive that break up with that girlfriend or boyfriend, or that fight we go into with a coworker, or whatever it is to you, we would only have been able to do anything different if we could bring our current day thoughts and understanding of that situation, as we know it right now, back into that moment in the past. But that would be a different situation, not the same. If we were in the exact same situation we would do the exact same thing, and we know that because it’s what we did it already.

If you imagine a future you, reflecting on a choice you will make tomorrow for use, but in the past for him, that future you would realize that exact same thing about his past, your future, tomorrow. That choice you make tomorrow is the only choice you will make because given the conditions, it’s the only choice you can make.

It doesn’t matter too much though, as it all still feels like choices we make. We can’t tell a difference and as long as it feels like free will it doesn’t really make a difference.

I generally agree with this on the face of it. But the problem I have with it is, if it's accurate, then rapists and mass murderers only do what they do because of their brain wiring, life experiences, and surrounding stimuli. We could not hold them accountable for their actions because they don't truly have a choice. That's a little too much cognitive dissonance for me. There must be more to this.

Also, you would expect 2 identical twins to have similar upbringing, surrounding stimuli, etc. and should turn out pretty similar at least until they become older kids where they may start to go in markedly different directions with their lives. But often, even as toddlers, 2 identical twins can already make completely different choices. Again, as difficult as it is to rationalize, I think there must be more to this.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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