What I see is wrong with the presup argument.
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23-03-2014, 06:23 AM (This post was last modified: 23-03-2014 06:49 AM by Metazoa Zeke.)
What I see is wrong with the presup argument.
Hello again my comrades. Of course today I will try my hand at presuppositional apologetic again. However it is more towards the problem with it instead of the fact it is used to keep an enslaved mined slaves to their slave masters. So here are a few problems

1. The could/possibility of you being wrong about everything you claim to know?

The claim here is used to make sure a intellectually person can fall into their trap. However pay attention to there wording. To a evidence person like me the key word is could/possible. These words are used to in hopes no one will catch it. Now the words definitions speak clear.

Possible:the state or fact of being possible

Could:(used to express possibility): I wonder who that could be at the door. That couldn't be true.

Now anything is possible. It is possible for me to 360 quick scope somebody,blindfolded, upside down while under water. I also could do that. However
it should be asked what is the probability of you being wrong. Probability deals more with real life events. And based on evidence they know the probability of being wrong on something like evolution is low.

2.Only in a christian world view is logic possible.

First I would like to point out the argument used here is in fact a contradiction to this claim as the whole argument is using the logical fallacy Begging the Question, and some times a argument from ignorance. This alone shows that the only way to show that Christianity is the only way to use logic, is to argue with illogical arguments.

3.You must presuppose the christian world view to even use logic.

This is a baseless claim. Knowing that these guys hate evidence, you know what fuck that, force them to prove this claim is real. Ask where the evidence is. Ask if they can make predictions off of this. Force them to show why this claim is true. But they will say.....

4.How can you justify your reasoning without using your reasoning?

The answer you don't. It happens in humans. It is like an instinct, in fact I can say it is. It is no different from saying how can a cat stalk without using his stalking ability. It is something that just happens. Ask them how they can do the same. But they will say.....

5.God has revealed it in such a way in which I can know for certain.

The goal here is to show them it is a bad argument. Say if I became a christian thanks to this argument. However I then go to say that god has revealed to me that that the white man is the devil and that blacks are the true chosen people of god. Remember this argument is valid, because god revealed that to me the same way he did for them. Also bring up others like Issac Newton, St Augustine, hell even other presuppositionalist.

6.Why does the law of non contradiction apply?

The problem is that this is only brought up when a contradiction on their side is shown. When this happens explained that this applies because it bring us both closer to the truth. So when a contradiction appears it is used to get rid of what is false. Also tell them it applies here because you know you just said a contradiction and don't want to be called out. Speaking of truth......

7.So if a brains are just fizz, then there is no true fizz or wrong fizz?

This comes from an argument from ignorance another logical fallacy. This is a misunderstanding of abiogenesis. Also humans work more like a computer then a soda bottle. Also it is not about who says what is right it goes on evidence. For example the evidence for evolution is here, but the evidence for creationism is false, Based on that we can say what is right and what is wrong. Last my favorite......

Is there a possibility of the christian god being real?

This question is funny. I would say no not at all. Now I am an agnostic atheist because there is a chance of a deity in a deistic way, but there is no chance of a religious god being real. Because the christian god is a religious god the chances of it being real is impossible. Why? Because every claim made for the christian god is proven false.

I could go on but that would be to long. Do you have any objections?

And for reading have cute puppies and kittens.

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23-03-2014, 07:21 AM
RE: What I see is wrong with the presup argument.
(23-03-2014 06:23 AM)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:  1. The could/possibility of you being wrong about everything you claim to know?

This is such a dumb argument, because it can be used to sow seeds of doubt about anything. You could literally ask them the same question verbatim and it would give reason to doubt Christianity.


(23-03-2014 06:23 AM)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:  2.Only in a christian world view is logic possible.
...
3.You must presuppose the christian world view to even use logic.

I am glad I've never talked with anyone making these claims.


(23-03-2014 06:23 AM)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:  Is there a possibility of the christian god being real?

I like to answer this question in a way that gives them the answer they want while at the same time dismissing it as an absurdity.

"Yes, in the same way that it's possible there's a unicorn standing right behind me that will teleport away if I turn around to look at it."
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