What IS morality, really?
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23-07-2016, 08:46 AM
RE: What IS morality, really?
(22-07-2016 01:42 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  
(11-07-2016 09:59 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Life is far from meaningless. Dumb argument

Are you saying that there is a meaning to life? Is it just human lives that have meaning, or do mosquitos' lives also have meaning?

Are you saying there is none? Your life has no meaning?

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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23-07-2016, 09:53 AM
RE: What IS morality, really?
(23-07-2016 08:46 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(22-07-2016 01:42 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  Are you saying that there is a meaning to life? Is it just human lives that have meaning, or do mosquitos' lives also have meaning?

Are you saying there is none? Your life has no meaning?

I would argue there is no inherent meaning, other than what we decide.

I think we need two terms here, one for inherent meaning and one for that-which-we-assign-to-it.

My life has great personal meaning, which I have discovered through my relationships with people and my love of the natural world. Does it have any inherent meaning, outside of those concepts? Not that I can detect or discover.

To paraphrase a concept from Robert Heinlein, my life has no meaning when an atomic bomb goes off in my city, vaporizing me and hundreds of thousands around me. It has no meaning when I'm a poor villager living in a remote region of Afghanistan and I can't even choose my fate, between being tortured to death by radical Islamists and blown up by a Hellfire missile from one of the American drones above me. It has no meaning when I starve to death in west Africa because my country was devastated so an oil company can make higher profits.

It does have meaning if people around me are saddened by the loss. And it certainly has meaning to me. The universe couldn't care less, however, and I'd challenge anyone throwing around phrases like the theists' posts, above, to show me any concept of inherent meaning to life that makes even a tiny bit of sense.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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23-07-2016, 10:02 AM
RE: What IS morality, really?
(23-07-2016 09:53 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(23-07-2016 08:46 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  Are you saying there is none? Your life has no meaning?

I would argue there is no inherent meaning, other than what we decide.

Exactly! Thanks. I was going to say that but you said it better than I would have.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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23-07-2016, 03:29 PM
RE: What IS morality, really?
(11-07-2016 09:45 PM)Edgar Wrote:  [...] Morality is just opinion; it means nothing.

(I'm assuming this is a drive-by, but anyway...)

What a load of pompous, introverted drivel. And what a lonely, sad little life you must lead.

—Seriously, to think like this says to me you have very low levels of self-esteem; that you're socially inhibited; you're lonely; you have no true friends; you have internalising issues; long latency interacting with strangers; and you're extremely shy.

You really need to get out and about a bit more, and develop a few new friendships other than Mrs Palmer and her five daughters. Waste not your seed on the carpet my friend. Tongue

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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23-07-2016, 08:05 PM
RE: What IS morality, really?
(22-07-2016 02:52 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(22-07-2016 01:42 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  Are you saying that there is a meaning to life? Is it just human lives that have meaning, or do mosquitos' lives also have meaning?

How is made up meaning any less meaning than supposed other "real" meanings?

That's a silly question. That's like asking "what's the difference between things that are real, and things that are imaginary?"
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23-07-2016, 08:06 PM
RE: What IS morality, really?
(23-07-2016 03:29 PM)SYZ Wrote:  
(11-07-2016 09:45 PM)Edgar Wrote:  [...] Morality is just opinion; it means nothing.

(I'm assuming this is a drive-by, but anyway...)

What a load of pompous, introverted drivel. And what a lonely, sad little life you must lead.

—Seriously, to think like this says to me you have very low levels of self-esteem; that you're socially inhibited; you're lonely; you have no true friends; you have internalising issues; long latency interacting with strangers; and you're extremely shy.

You really need to get out and about a bit more, and develop a few new friendships other than Mrs Palmer and her five daughters. Waste not your seed on the carpet my friend. Tongue

Project much?

One doesn't have to be sad and lonely to accept reality. Your post speaks a lot about you though.
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23-07-2016, 08:32 PM
RE: What IS morality, really?
(23-07-2016 08:05 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  
(22-07-2016 02:52 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  How is made up meaning any less meaning than supposed other "real" meanings?

That's a silly question. That's like asking "what's the difference between things that are real, and things that are imaginary?"

Imagined things are real, they have the concept of them being imagined still do they not. Perhaps they're not real in the way they're described, but that describing is a reality.

If one used a limited scoped definition of something, then sure it could mean something and not anything else.

Is something being imagined not a real act of it being imagined, just as is not meaning given to something not meaning? It's not that wishing something makes something real... it's just that the act of that wishing is a process itself happening.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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23-07-2016, 08:58 PM
RE: What IS morality, really?
(23-07-2016 08:32 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  ...
Imagined things are real, they have the concept of them being imagined still do they not. Perhaps they're not real in the way they're described, but that describing is a reality.

If one used a limited scoped definition of something, then sure it could mean something and not anything else.

Is something being imagined not a real act of it being imagined, just as is not meaning given to something not meaning? It's not that wishing something makes something real... it's just that the act of that wishing is a process itself happening.

Numbers.

Real or imaginary?

You decide.

Big Grin

Is abstract art real or a load of pollocks?

Consider

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23-07-2016, 09:08 PM
RE: What IS morality, really?
(23-07-2016 09:53 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(23-07-2016 08:46 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  Are you saying there is none? Your life has no meaning?

I would argue there is no inherent meaning, other than what we decide.

I think we need two terms here, one for inherent meaning and one for that-which-we-assign-to-it.

My life has great personal meaning, which I have discovered through my relationships with people and my love of the natural world. Does it have any inherent meaning, outside of those concepts? Not that I can detect or discover.

To paraphrase a concept from Robert Heinlein, my life has no meaning when an atomic bomb goes off in my city, vaporizing me and hundreds of thousands around me. It has no meaning when I'm a poor villager living in a remote region of Afghanistan and I can't even choose my fate, between being tortured to death by radical Islamists and blown up by a Hellfire missile from one of the American drones above me. It has no meaning when I starve to death in west Africa because my country was devastated so an oil company can make higher profits.

It does have meaning if people around me are saddened by the loss. And it certainly has meaning to me. The universe couldn't care less, however, and I'd challenge anyone throwing around phrases like the theists' posts, above, to show me any concept of inherent meaning to life that makes even a tiny bit of sense.

Well said Doc Rocket.

So many cats, so few good recipes.
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27-07-2016, 07:41 PM
RE: What IS morality, really?
Well, the textbook definition of Morality is

Morality: Noun - a particular system of values and principles of conduct, especially one held by a specified person or society.


Basically what it is, is the ability to objectively determine that an action has a positive physical action on a living being that does not include yourself.

What I mean is, that if you perform an action. You can say that it will objectively have a positive outcome for the mental and physical well being for a living entity that does not include you.

This means that murder which puts an end to the life of someone else is morally wrong since the end of their life would be of negative consequence since they would not want that to happen to them. Their family would suffer the lose of their family member and so on.

The same can be said for suicide. Any action such as theft and arson and so on. We can objectively determine a positive outcome such as giving a homeless man money because for the same reasons as the negative ones. They can afford to eat and drink and if they were to ever receive enough money. They would no longer be poor and homeless.


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