What If Today A Person Murdered People And Said They Were Ordered To Do So By God?
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09-05-2014, 03:46 PM
What If Today A Person Murdered People And Said They Were Ordered To Do So By God?
We see many cases where God orders the killings of people in the Bible. Here are some, which I took from the website http://www.evilbible.com:

"God kills 70,000 innocent people because David ordered a census of the people (1 Chronicles 21). God also orders the destruction of 60 cities so that the Israelites can live there. He orders the killing of all the men, women, and children of each city, and the looting of all of value (Deuteronomy 3). He orders another attack and the killing of “all the living creatures of the city: men and women, young, and old, as well as oxen sheep, and asses” (Joshua 6). In Judges 21, He orders the murder of all the people of Jabesh-gilead, except for the virgin girls who were taken to be forcibly raped and married. When they wanted more virgins, God told them to hide alongside the road and when they saw a girl they liked, kidnap her and forcibly rape her and make her your wife! Just about every other page in the Old Testament has God killing somebody! In 2 Kings 10:18-27, God orders the murder of all the worshipers of a different god in their very own church! In total God kills 371,186 people directly and orders another 1,862,265 people murdered."

So, if today somebody was on trial for going on a mass murder spree, killing non-Christians and others who are "disobeying God", because they claim that God told them to do so, what would Christians say? God certainly did that in the Bible, so why is it that he can tell people in Biblical times to kill people, yet if somebody in our modern day society said that God spoke to them and ordered them to kill people, Christians would say that person is nuts? By Christian morality, this person has a valid defense for their actions, since God ordered the same thing to be done in the past. Why would God order these things to be done in the past, but not in the present day?

Also, this is where the "burden of proof argument" that Christians LOVE to use can be thrown right back in their faces: The defendant can say "Can you prove that God DIDN'T order me to kill these people? Hmm...?" By the Christian "burden of proof" argument, this is an absolutely valid defense, and the burden of proof is now on the prosecution to show that God did not order the defendant to kill those people. Of course, it's impossible to disprove, therefore, by the Christian "burden of proof" argument, the defendant MUST go free!

“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.” - Mark Twain
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09-05-2014, 03:57 PM
RE: What If Today A Person Murdered People And Said They Were Ordered To Do So By God?
See also: Yates, Andrea and Sam, Son of.

We have enough youth. How about looking for the Fountain of Smart?
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09-05-2014, 04:08 PM
RE: What If Today A Person Murdered People And Said They Were Ordered To Do So By God?
(09-05-2014 03:46 PM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  We see many cases where God orders the killings of people in the Bible. Here are some, which I took from the website http://www.evilbible.com:

"God kills 70,000 innocent people because David ordered a census of the people (1 Chronicles 21). God also orders the destruction of 60 cities so that the Israelites can live there. He orders the killing of all the men, women, and children of each city, and the looting of all of value (Deuteronomy 3). He orders another attack and the killing of “all the living creatures of the city: men and women, young, and old, as well as oxen sheep, and asses” (Joshua 6). In Judges 21, He orders the murder of all the people of Jabesh-gilead, except for the virgin girls who were taken to be forcibly raped and married. When they wanted more virgins, God told them to hide alongside the road and when they saw a girl they liked, kidnap her and forcibly rape her and make her your wife! Just about every other page in the Old Testament has God killing somebody! In 2 Kings 10:18-27, God orders the murder of all the worshipers of a different god in their very own church! In total God kills 371,186 people directly and orders another 1,862,265 people murdered."

So, if today somebody was on trial for going on a mass murder spree, killing non-Christians and others who are "disobeying God", because they claim that God told them to do so, what would Christians say? God certainly did that in the Bible, so why is it that he can tell people in Biblical times to kill people, yet if somebody in our modern day society said that God spoke to them and ordered them to kill people, Christians would say that person is nuts? By Christian morality, this person has a valid defense for their actions, since God ordered the same thing to be done in the past. Why would God order these things to be done in the past, but not in the present day?

Also, this is where the "burden of proof argument" that Christians LOVE to use can be thrown right back in their faces: The defendant can say "Can you prove that God DIDN'T order me to kill these people? Hmm...?" By the Christian "burden of proof" argument, this is an absolutely valid defense, and the burden of proof is now on the prosecution to show that God did not order the defendant to kill those people. Of course, it's impossible to disprove, therefore, by the Christian "burden of proof" argument, the defendant MUST go free!

What would happen?

The offender would in all probability be slapped in the face with a maximum jail term for relating crime (I.e. Manslaughter or murder, depending on how the killing happened).
If they weren't sent off to jail, they'd be sent off to the nearest available psychiatric institute to live out their term under the very close watching eyes of psychiatric hospital orderlies and their doctors. Probably with a a specifically set guard detail too.

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09-05-2014, 04:10 PM
RE: What If Today A Person Murdered People And Said They Were Ordered To Do So By God?
I don't know all I would here is the no true Scotsman fallacy all day.Dodgy

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09-05-2014, 04:38 PM
RE: What If Today A Person Murdered People And Said They Were Ordered To Do So By God?
Overheard on Twitter today:

Christians should not be allowed to serve on juries because they don't know what a reasonable doubt is.

Religion is proof that invisible men can obscure your vision.
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09-05-2014, 04:52 PM
RE: What If Today A Person Murdered People And Said They Were Ordered To Do So By God?
(09-05-2014 03:46 PM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  We see many cases where God orders the killings of people in the Bible. Here are some, which I took from the website http://www.evilbible.com:

"God kills 70,000 innocent people because David ordered a census of the people (1 Chronicles 21). God also orders the destruction of 60 cities so that the Israelites can live there. He orders the killing of all the men, women, and children of each city, and the looting of all of value (Deuteronomy 3). He orders another attack and the killing of “all the living creatures of the city: men and women, young, and old, as well as oxen sheep, and asses” (Joshua 6). In Judges 21, He orders the murder of all the people of Jabesh-gilead, except for the virgin girls who were taken to be forcibly raped and married. When they wanted more virgins, God told them to hide alongside the road and when they saw a girl they liked, kidnap her and forcibly rape her and make her your wife! Just about every other page in the Old Testament has God killing somebody! In 2 Kings 10:18-27, God orders the murder of all the worshipers of a different god in their very own church! In total God kills 371,186 people directly and orders another 1,862,265 people murdered."

So, if today somebody was on trial for going on a mass murder spree, killing non-Christians and others who are "disobeying God", because they claim that God told them to do so, what would Christians say? God certainly did that in the Bible, so why is it that he can tell people in Biblical times to kill people, yet if somebody in our modern day society said that God spoke to them and ordered them to kill people, Christians would say that person is nuts? By Christian morality, this person has a valid defense for their actions, since God ordered the same thing to be done in the past. Why would God order these things to be done in the past, but not in the present day?

Also, this is where the "burden of proof argument" that Christians LOVE to use can be thrown right back in their faces: The defendant can say "Can you prove that God DIDN'T order me to kill these people? Hmm...?" By the Christian "burden of proof" argument, this is an absolutely valid defense, and the burden of proof is now on the prosecution to show that God did not order the defendant to kill those people. Of course, it's impossible to disprove, therefore, by the Christian "burden of proof" argument, the defendant MUST go free!


Easy.

I would say the person was wrong.
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09-05-2014, 05:01 PM
RE: What If Today A Person Murdered People And Said They Were Ordered To Do So By God?
(09-05-2014 04:52 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(09-05-2014 03:46 PM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  We see many cases where God orders the killings of people in the Bible. Here are some, which I took from the website http://www.evilbible.com:

"God kills 70,000 innocent people because David ordered a census of the people (1 Chronicles 21). God also orders the destruction of 60 cities so that the Israelites can live there. He orders the killing of all the men, women, and children of each city, and the looting of all of value (Deuteronomy 3). He orders another attack and the killing of “all the living creatures of the city: men and women, young, and old, as well as oxen sheep, and asses” (Joshua 6). In Judges 21, He orders the murder of all the people of Jabesh-gilead, except for the virgin girls who were taken to be forcibly raped and married. When they wanted more virgins, God told them to hide alongside the road and when they saw a girl they liked, kidnap her and forcibly rape her and make her your wife! Just about every other page in the Old Testament has God killing somebody! In 2 Kings 10:18-27, God orders the murder of all the worshipers of a different god in their very own church! In total God kills 371,186 people directly and orders another 1,862,265 people murdered."

So, if today somebody was on trial for going on a mass murder spree, killing non-Christians and others who are "disobeying God", because they claim that God told them to do so, what would Christians say? God certainly did that in the Bible, so why is it that he can tell people in Biblical times to kill people, yet if somebody in our modern day society said that God spoke to them and ordered them to kill people, Christians would say that person is nuts? By Christian morality, this person has a valid defense for their actions, since God ordered the same thing to be done in the past. Why would God order these things to be done in the past, but not in the present day?

Also, this is where the "burden of proof argument" that Christians LOVE to use can be thrown right back in their faces: The defendant can say "Can you prove that God DIDN'T order me to kill these people? Hmm...?" By the Christian "burden of proof" argument, this is an absolutely valid defense, and the burden of proof is now on the prosecution to show that God did not order the defendant to kill those people. Of course, it's impossible to disprove, therefore, by the Christian "burden of proof" argument, the defendant MUST go free!


Easy.

I would say the person was wrong.

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09-05-2014, 05:22 PM (This post was last modified: 09-05-2014 05:40 PM by WindyCityJazz.)
RE: What If Today A Person Murdered People And Said They Were Ordered To Do So By God?
(09-05-2014 04:08 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(09-05-2014 03:46 PM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  We see many cases where God orders the killings of people in the Bible. Here are some, which I took from the website http://www.evilbible.com:

"God kills 70,000 innocent people because David ordered a census of the people (1 Chronicles 21). God also orders the destruction of 60 cities so that the Israelites can live there. He orders the killing of all the men, women, and children of each city, and the looting of all of value (Deuteronomy 3). He orders another attack and the killing of “all the living creatures of the city: men and women, young, and old, as well as oxen sheep, and asses” (Joshua 6). In Judges 21, He orders the murder of all the people of Jabesh-gilead, except for the virgin girls who were taken to be forcibly raped and married. When they wanted more virgins, God told them to hide alongside the road and when they saw a girl they liked, kidnap her and forcibly rape her and make her your wife! Just about every other page in the Old Testament has God killing somebody! In 2 Kings 10:18-27, God orders the murder of all the worshipers of a different god in their very own church! In total God kills 371,186 people directly and orders another 1,862,265 people murdered."

So, if today somebody was on trial for going on a mass murder spree, killing non-Christians and others who are "disobeying God", because they claim that God told them to do so, what would Christians say? God certainly did that in the Bible, so why is it that he can tell people in Biblical times to kill people, yet if somebody in our modern day society said that God spoke to them and ordered them to kill people, Christians would say that person is nuts? By Christian morality, this person has a valid defense for their actions, since God ordered the same thing to be done in the past. Why would God order these things to be done in the past, but not in the present day?

Also, this is where the "burden of proof argument" that Christians LOVE to use can be thrown right back in their faces: The defendant can say "Can you prove that God DIDN'T order me to kill these people? Hmm...?" By the Christian "burden of proof" argument, this is an absolutely valid defense, and the burden of proof is now on the prosecution to show that God did not order the defendant to kill those people. Of course, it's impossible to disprove, therefore, by the Christian "burden of proof" argument, the defendant MUST go free!

What would happen?

The offender would in all probability be slapped in the face with a maximum jail term for relating crime (I.e. Manslaughter or murder, depending on how the killing happened).
If they weren't sent off to jail, they'd be sent off to the nearest available psychiatric institute to live out their term under the very close watching eyes of psychiatric hospital orderlies and their doctors. Probably with a a specifically set guard detail too.

Yes, we all know what would be done with him by the legal system today.

My question is: What would Christians think of this situation? This person is obviously committing actions ordered by their infallible god in the past, and using that as a defense. Can they do anything that would not be hypocritical?

“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.” - Mark Twain
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09-05-2014, 05:51 PM
RE: What If Today A Person Murdered People And Said They Were Ordered To Do So By God?
(09-05-2014 05:22 PM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  
(09-05-2014 04:08 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  What would happen?

The offender would in all probability be slapped in the face with a maximum jail term for relating crime (I.e. Manslaughter or murder, depending on how the killing happened).
If they weren't sent off to jail, they'd be sent off to the nearest available psychiatric institute to live out their term under the very close watching eyes of psychiatric hospital orderlies and their doctors. Probably with a a specifically set guard detail too.

Yes, we all know what would be done with him by the legal system today.

My question is: What would Christians think of this situation? This person is obviously committing actions ordered by their infallible god in the past, and using that as a defense. Can they do anything that would not be hypocritical?

I already gave you my response.
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09-05-2014, 05:53 PM
RE: What If Today A Person Murdered People And Said They Were Ordered To Do So By God?
(09-05-2014 05:22 PM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  
(09-05-2014 04:08 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  What would happen?

The offender would in all probability be slapped in the face with a maximum jail term for relating crime (I.e. Manslaughter or murder, depending on how the killing happened).
If they weren't sent off to jail, they'd be sent off to the nearest available psychiatric institute to live out their term under the very close watching eyes of psychiatric hospital orderlies and their doctors. Probably with a a specifically set guard detail too.

Yes, we all know what would be done with him by the legal system today.

My question is: What would Christians think of this situation? This person is obviously committing actions ordered by their infallible god in the past, and using that as a defense. Can they do anything that would not be hypocritical?

I would say the person was wrong.
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