What If Today A Person Murdered People And Said They Were Ordered To Do So By God?
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09-05-2014, 05:58 PM
RE: What If Today A Person Murdered People And Said They Were Ordered To Do So By God?
(09-05-2014 04:52 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(09-05-2014 03:46 PM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  We see many cases where God orders the killings of people in the Bible. Here are some, which I took from the website http://www.evilbible.com:

"God kills 70,000 innocent people because David ordered a census of the people (1 Chronicles 21). God also orders the destruction of 60 cities so that the Israelites can live there. He orders the killing of all the men, women, and children of each city, and the looting of all of value (Deuteronomy 3). He orders another attack and the killing of “all the living creatures of the city: men and women, young, and old, as well as oxen sheep, and asses” (Joshua 6). In Judges 21, He orders the murder of all the people of Jabesh-gilead, except for the virgin girls who were taken to be forcibly raped and married. When they wanted more virgins, God told them to hide alongside the road and when they saw a girl they liked, kidnap her and forcibly rape her and make her your wife! Just about every other page in the Old Testament has God killing somebody! In 2 Kings 10:18-27, God orders the murder of all the worshipers of a different god in their very own church! In total God kills 371,186 people directly and orders another 1,862,265 people murdered."

So, if today somebody was on trial for going on a mass murder spree, killing non-Christians and others who are "disobeying God", because they claim that God told them to do so, what would Christians say? God certainly did that in the Bible, so why is it that he can tell people in Biblical times to kill people, yet if somebody in our modern day society said that God spoke to them and ordered them to kill people, Christians would say that person is nuts? By Christian morality, this person has a valid defense for their actions, since God ordered the same thing to be done in the past. Why would God order these things to be done in the past, but not in the present day?

Also, this is where the "burden of proof argument" that Christians LOVE to use can be thrown right back in their faces: The defendant can say "Can you prove that God DIDN'T order me to kill these people? Hmm...?" By the Christian "burden of proof" argument, this is an absolutely valid defense, and the burden of proof is now on the prosecution to show that God did not order the defendant to kill those people. Of course, it's impossible to disprove, therefore, by the Christian "burden of proof" argument, the defendant MUST go free!


Easy.

I would say the person was wrong.

So you admit your god was wrong for telling people to commit those same actions, and therefore is not infallible.

“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.” - Mark Twain
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09-05-2014, 05:58 PM
RE: What If Today A Person Murdered People And Said They Were Ordered To Do So By God?
(09-05-2014 05:53 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  I would say the person was wrong.
On what grounds? Consider

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09-05-2014, 06:07 PM
RE: What If Today A Person Murdered People And Said They Were Ordered To Do So By God?
1. No one in the entire world would believe them

2. They would be put away with a giant black man with a Really thick fourteen inch penis that will rape him in the butt all the way to da ballz every night for the rest of their stay in jail. Which will be about 40-50 years or so.

3. They would get out and live on the street, living off of dumpster can food and rain water.

4. They would then die in a gutter from a drug overdose suicide.

5. The world had forgotten about him 40-50 years ago, so no one would mourn or even care.
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09-05-2014, 06:35 PM
RE: What If Today A Person Murdered People And Said They Were Ordered To Do So By God?
This person will be in heaven according to the bible. The theme of the bible is the will of the monster war god Yahveh.Thumbsup
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09-05-2014, 07:31 PM
RE: What If Today A Person Murdered People And Said They Were Ordered To Do So By God?
(09-05-2014 05:58 PM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  
(09-05-2014 04:52 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Easy.

I would say the person was wrong.

So you admit your god was wrong for telling people to commit those same actions, and therefore is not infallible.

No. He was right.
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09-05-2014, 07:32 PM
RE: What If Today A Person Murdered People And Said They Were Ordered To Do So By God?
(09-05-2014 05:58 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(09-05-2014 05:53 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  I would say the person was wrong.
On what grounds? Consider

On the grounds that we are not living in a theocracy for one.
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09-05-2014, 07:33 PM
RE: What If Today A Person Murdered People And Said They Were Ordered To Do So By God?
(09-05-2014 06:35 PM)Leo Wrote:  This person will be in heaven according to the bible. The theme of the bible is the will of the monster war god Yahveh.Thumbsup

Point me to the passage.
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09-05-2014, 07:42 PM
What If Today A Person Murdered People And Said They Were Ordered To Do So By God?
Bush did that in Iraq. Got a lot of support for it too. Even Hitchens supported it, although Hitchens didn't think any god had done any talking.

If someone does something most people approve of, if the instigator says a god commanded it, so much the better. The "goodness" or "vileness" of the act is irrelevant.

Only if someone does something most people disapprove of does the claim "god made me do it" fall on deaf ears. Butchering 100 people in your own hometown is in most cases met with disapproval, so a "god" defense tends to fail.

Butchering 100 people overseas gets approval because the butchering is done "for the right reasons" and "god" isn't invoked as a defense but as a positive contributing factor.

Thus butchering 100 people is not "objectively" wrong, and saying it was "god" inspired or commanded either helps you or hurts you depending on why you did it and you did it without hurting any of the people left alive to pass judgement.
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09-05-2014, 07:58 PM
RE: What If Today A Person Murdered People And Said They Were Ordered To Do So By God?
(09-05-2014 07:42 PM)Airportkid Wrote:  Bush did that in Iraq. Got a lot of support for it too. Even Hitchens supported it, although Hitchens didn't think any god had done any talking.

If someone does something most people approve of, if the instigator says a god commanded it, so much the better. The "goodness" or "vileness" of the act is irrelevant.

Only if someone does something most people disapprove of does the claim "god made me do it" fall on deaf ears. Butchering 100 people in your own hometown is in most cases met with disapproval, so a "god" defense tends to fail.

Butchering 100 people overseas gets approval because the butchering is done "for the right reasons" and "god" isn't invoked as a defense but as a positive contributing factor.

Thus butchering 100 people is not "objectively" wrong, and saying it was "god" inspired or commanded either helps you or hurts you depending on why you did it and you did it without hurting any of the people left alive to pass judgement.

I am all for eradicating people who make it their life's goal of terrorizing people and when rebuked, these terrorists refuse to listen to reason.

The world is a better place without them. Not saying that was what happened in Iraq but if Saddam was doing all that crap they said he was and Osama too then yes, exterminate them.

Them and any who unrepentantly terrorize people. Let them be eradicated.

I dont buy the whole cultural relativism garbage.
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09-05-2014, 08:00 PM
RE: What If Today A Person Murdered People And Said They Were Ordered To Do So By God?
(09-05-2014 07:31 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(09-05-2014 05:58 PM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  So you admit your god was wrong for telling people to commit those same actions, and therefore is not infallible.

No. He was right.

Interesting...so you support the murder of children in certain situations. I don't think that there is ever a situation where child murder is right. If a god actually ordered such a thing, then he is an evil prick.

“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.” - Mark Twain
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