What If Today A Person Murdered People And Said They Were Ordered To Do So By God?
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10-05-2014, 07:51 AM
RE: What If Today A Person Murdered People And Said They Were Ordered To Do So By God?
(10-05-2014 06:45 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(10-05-2014 06:31 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  murder is the unjustified taking of life.

Killing terrorists who make it their life's goal of terrorizing people who refuse to stop when warned is justified.

So all the genocide in the Bible is not God being a capricious dick but God justifiably taking out the trash? Even the stuff about killing babies? Are babies terrorists?

How about the story of that dude who touched the ark of the covenant and got killed on the spot? Refer somewhere in Kings. He just wanted to stop the damn thing falling over but God said "Fuck that" and killed him.

You're telling me not having faith in God, picking up sticks on the Sabbath, having adulterous sex etc are all such heinous crimes such that *killing* someone who does them is *justified*?

If you believe these things to be true, you are a fucking nutcase.

In a theocracy, God is the one governing the people. These passages which people like to take out of context were written while Israel was a theocracy.

When you have rightly interpreted these passages and have read the bible in its entirety without fallaciously quote mining, then come back here and we will have a discussion.
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10-05-2014, 07:52 AM (This post was last modified: 10-05-2014 08:02 AM by Charis.)
RE: What If Today A Person Murdered People And Said They Were Ordered To Do So By God?
(10-05-2014 07:18 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  It depends on whether or not they hold office. Was George Bush Jr. arrested for going to war in Iraq based on what he thought God was telling him? No - he received widespread support in all branches of government, and the general population.

People who kill without the authority to do so and blame it on God's instruction are locked up. People who have the authority are encouraged to lean on God, as it was in the pages of history.
The argument in that case would be that anyone with God's permission or command to do so (real or perceived) would therefore "have the authority." And that would take us back to square one.... the OP.

And by the way.... The following is a wonderful sight to see, and reduces untold amounts of stress to practically nil:

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I highly recommend it.

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10-05-2014, 07:54 AM
RE: What If Today A Person Murdered People And Said They Were Ordered To Do So By God?
(10-05-2014 07:09 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  
(10-05-2014 06:24 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  No it is not. At best you have demonstrated that God kills children and babies.

No Christian would argue against this nor does it make it murder.

I find it ironic that the same people who accuse God of murdering babies would condone the killing of an unborn baby.

I find it ironic that you gloss over the fact that babies are killed everyday and it is not considered murder.

The issue is not whether God has killed children or babies, the issue is, has God done something He should not have done?

There are two ways of looking at this. First in order for there to actually be a charge brought forth against God, He would have had to have actually broken some law that says babies should not be killed. There is no law however that states that whether you are a moral objectivist or not.

Secondly, God as God, is the one who actually created the babies. If God deems it best for a baby to die instead of suffering during its life then He has done what is right in taking the childs life. Parents do this exact same thing when they take a suffering baby off of life support. No one condemns them of murder.

Stop quoting garbage off of an infidel website and start thinking for yourself for a change.

Yabut - killing someone other than in self defense or by accident IS murder.

No it is not. I can think of a thousand scenarios where killing someone is justified and therefore not murder. Police do it all the time. Doctors too. Soldiers etc etc.
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10-05-2014, 07:59 AM
RE: What If Today A Person Murdered People And Said They Were Ordered To Do So By God?
(10-05-2014 06:24 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  No it is not. At best you have demonstrated that God kills children and babies.

No Christian would argue against this nor does it make it murder.

I find it ironic that the same people who accuse God of murdering babies would condone the killing of an unborn baby.

I find it ironic that you gloss over the fact that babies are killed everyday and it is not considered murder.

The issue is not whether God has killed children or babies, the issue is, has God done something He should not have done?

There are two ways of looking at this. First in order for there to actually be a charge brought forth against God, He would have had to have actually broken some law that says babies should not be killed. There is no law however that states that whether you are a moral objectivist or not.

Secondly, God as God, is the one who actually created the babies. If God deems it best for a baby to die instead of suffering during its life then He has done what is right in taking the childs life. Parents do this exact same thing when they take a suffering baby off of life support. No one condemns them of murder.

Stop quoting garbage off of an infidel website and start thinking for yourself for a change.

HAHAHAHA! A creationist telling me to think for myself. Talk about fucking hypocrisy at its finest!

Those quotes aren't just from a webpage you dumbass. They are STRAIGHT OUT OF YOUR BIBLE!! The fact that somebody posted them on a webpage suddenly makes them false? The defense tactics you Christians try to use are just so idiotic.

A zygote is not a baby. That is your own personal opinion. Secondly, if your god is all-knowing, then he KNEW those babies would suffer before he created them, moron! Again, your defense strategy is completely idiotic.

You can't tell me that God is perfect, then turn around and tell me it is wrong for somebody to follow his actions. That's hypocritical bullshit at its finest!

Thinking for myself is exactly what drove me away from religion! Why don't you start thinking for yourself instead of blindly following all the bullshit that has been shoved down your throat your whole life?

“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.” - Mark Twain
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10-05-2014, 08:18 AM
RE: What If Today A Person Murdered People And Said They Were Ordered To Do So By God?
(10-05-2014 07:51 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(10-05-2014 06:45 AM)morondog Wrote:  So all the genocide in the Bible is not God being a capricious dick but God justifiably taking out the trash? Even the stuff about killing babies? Are babies terrorists?

How about the story of that dude who touched the ark of the covenant and got killed on the spot? Refer somewhere in Kings. He just wanted to stop the damn thing falling over but God said "Fuck that" and killed him.

You're telling me not having faith in God, picking up sticks on the Sabbath, having adulterous sex etc are all such heinous crimes such that *killing* someone who does them is *justified*?

If you believe these things to be true, you are a fucking nutcase.

In a theocracy, God is the one governing the people. These passages which people like to take out of context were written while Israel was a theocracy.

When you have rightly interpreted these passages and have read the bible in its entirety without fallaciously quote mining, then come back here and we will have a discussion.

So you are saying that genocide, rape, and murder are moral in a theocracy? Consider

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10-05-2014, 08:53 AM
RE: What If Today A Person Murdered People And Said They Were Ordered To Do So By God?
(10-05-2014 07:51 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  In a theocracy, God is the one governing the people.

theocracy |THēˈäkrəsē|
noun ( pl. theocracies )
a system of government in which priests rule in the name of God or a god.

We have enough youth. How about looking for the Fountain of Smart?
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10-05-2014, 10:32 AM
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(10-05-2014 06:31 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  murder is the unjustified taking of life.
No, no it isn't. Your definition is completely made-up.

Oxford Dictionaries: The unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.

Cornell University Law School: Murder occurs when one human being unlawfully kills another human being.

Merriam-Webster: The crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought.

And so on and so forth.

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10-05-2014, 12:48 PM
RE: What If Today A Person Murdered People And Said They Were Ordered To Do So By God?
(10-05-2014 06:29 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(09-05-2014 11:30 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  What do you think happened to Lot's wife?

Honestly. It's a tall tale. I'd like to hear what you think about that story and what happened to her and what you think about it.

She was warned not to do something and she did and suffered the consequences.

Her looking back was symbolic that she loved her evil life and was forced against her will to leave it. Her looking back was showing she had never left at all. She therefore was worthy of death as all who had stayed were worthy of death.

God warns people that evil and wickedness will destroy them. When the warning is dismissed, judgment comes.

I agree with the judgment.

If you actually think that. If really, deep down in your heart of hearts believe, even if the story were true, that god's judgement and action in this instance was a good thing.......

Then you really are an unloving, unforgiving, morally deprived and wretched human being. You and your fundamentalist ilk are the bane of our struggling human existence.

Doom on you.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

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10-05-2014, 01:00 PM
RE: What If Today A Person Murdered People And Said They Were Ordered To Do So By God?
(10-05-2014 07:51 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  In a theocracy, God is the one governing the people. These passages which people like to take out of context were written while Israel was a theocracy.

When you have rightly interpreted these passages and have read the bible in its entirety without fallaciously quote mining, then come back here and we will have a discussion.

What the fuck did I fallaciously quote mine you dishonest swine?

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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10-05-2014, 03:09 PM
RE: What If Today A Person Murdered People And Said They Were Ordered To Do So By God?
Balker - you are again one of the most twisted, damaged, and delusional fucking imbeciles I have ever come across. Something horrible must have happened in your past to want so badly to believe in the fantasy father figure that thinks you are so special. Open your eyes to what is documented of this figure's actions. My kids would not accept it if I killed my neighbors parents, enslaved the children, and took any virgin daughters for my own pleasure, so why should you?

If you are over 9 years old, you need to wise up fast and face reality with a vengeance.

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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