What Intelligent Design might tell us about a god.
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08-04-2017, 10:15 AM
What Intelligent Design might tell us about a god.
I was watching an episode of The Atheist Experience a few weeks back and a caller on the program talked about some book about the proof of intelligent design. One of the hosts (Tracie, I think) keep shutting him down with the question "How can you tell the difference between something that is natural (evolved) and something that is designed?

So I thought about that for a while and this is what I've come up with...

Intelligently designed life is a real thing, there are whole branches of science devoted to it, except we call it agriculture or genetic engineering, or animal husbandry etc... The reason science rejects the religious version of intelligent design is solely due to there being no evidence pointing to their "creator". So what would we expect evidence of a "supernatural" creator to look like? Well how would someone tell the difference between animals & plants we've fiddled with and the others just left to nature's influence.

*POOF* (all humans have just disappeared from the earth)

Now some aliens just wandered into earth orbit and their scientists are starting to study the life they see. Can they tell the designed from the natural? Of course they can, look at a dairy cow, they could easily tell that it could not exist in nature without outside assistance, they could also see that it produces many times more milk then would be required to raise its young. From this they could deduce that something else or someone else engineered the cow to use the milk. They would also find "seedless" oranges & watermelon's etc , from this they could determine what the diet of the "creator" of these things was.

They might find it more perplexing to figure out why someone would make this:

[Image: 6122cb371a319afa82c5d4e8077ebbdc.jpg]

out of this:

[Image: gray-wolf-snow.jpg.adapt.945.1.jpg]

But they would know that it wasn't natural forces that did it.

So the key difference we would look for is that "natural" life adapts and changes solely to the environmental conditions it finds itself in and just barely (as evidenced by the fact that 99% of all life that ever existed is dead) the animals that evolved naturally usually have little margins for error. A giraffe's neck is only as long as the trees it feeds on, the cheetah can run 80 mph but still that only allows it to catch it's prey 1 out of 10 times.

We have reengineered life for reasons other then what is required for it to survive in the wild, and often with the side effect that the life form couldn't survive on it's own any more. And we didn't just alter ONE species, we like to eat, and we have pretty much tried to change EVERTHING that we found to be edible (and even some stuff that wasn't originally edible in its natural form).

So now let's insert Yahweh (just for example) into this place. What does it want (according to the bible)? To be loved,worshipped, praised... so what would you expect him to "intelligently design", well you would need life of a certain level of intelligence to do all that loving & worshipping wouldn't you. But as far as I know we're the only species "capable" of worshiping anything. If we were wanting/needing worship/praise we'd be reengineering EVERY animal (plants too maybe?) that we saw with any potential for increased intelligence wouldn't we?

So why would he just pick us? Lucky, lucky us...

Likely answer is there's probably no god around (that requires worship) to "design" anything.

Shocking conclusion I know! Big Grin

A friend in the hole

"If we're going to be damned, let's be damned for what we really are." - Captain Picard
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08-04-2017, 10:39 AM
RE: What Intelligent Design might tell us about a god.
We've designed the Great Dane and the Chihuahua, to dogs who can't reproduce together. This within the past few hundred years. No god or gods needed.
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08-04-2017, 11:16 AM
RE: What Intelligent Design might tell us about a god.
(08-04-2017 10:39 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  We've designed the Great Dane and the Chihuahua, to dogs who can't reproduce together. This within the past few hundred years. No god or gods needed.

Not can't - shouldn't.

http://puppytoob.com/dog-breeds/can-chih...mix-exist/

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08-04-2017, 11:21 AM
RE: What Intelligent Design might tell us about a god.
(08-04-2017 11:16 AM)Anjele Wrote:  
(08-04-2017 10:39 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  We've designed the Great Dane and the Chihuahua, to dogs who can't reproduce together. This within the past few hundred years. No god or gods needed.

Not can't - shouldn't.

http://puppytoob.com/dog-breeds/can-chih...mix-exist/

Damn right you shouldn't have! Sadcryface how am I gonna get that picture out of my head now. Shocking THANK GOD the article mentioned artificial insemination!

Big Grin

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"If we're going to be damned, let's be damned for what we really are." - Captain Picard
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08-04-2017, 11:38 AM
RE: What Intelligent Design might tell us about a god.
I always ask those that when you ask for proof of a god they say "Look around!" what they are comparing the "creation" to, to determine it was designed. As I said in another thread, I can compare a house to a cave and determine the house was built, the cave is natural. Now what do I compare the cave to, to determine it was designed?

Also if there is an intelligent designer.....they are really bad at their job.
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08-04-2017, 12:00 PM
RE: What Intelligent Design might tell us about a god.
Only other thing that just kind of makes me wonder is what would this planet be like if there were a dozen or so species with our level of intelligence and the ability to communicate ? It probably be a bigger mess then what we have now...what would the wars be like? The religions? The porn?

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08-04-2017, 12:06 PM
RE: What Intelligent Design might tell us about a god.
(08-04-2017 11:16 AM)Anjele Wrote:  
(08-04-2017 10:39 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  We've designed the Great Dane and the Chihuahua, to dogs who can't reproduce together. This within the past few hundred years. No god or gods needed.

Not can't - shouldn't.

http://puppytoob.com/dog-breeds/can-chih...mix-exist/

Um, I'm not taking "puppytoob" as an authority.
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08-04-2017, 12:42 PM
RE: What Intelligent Design might tell us about a god.
We have designed bulldogs so the female's can't give birth normally anymore. From what I've read all pregnant female bulldogs have to have a cesarean operation because their hips are so out of wack now from humans breeding them to have a certain look that they can't give birth naturally. Bulldogs also have a lot of breathing problems so owners sometimes have big vet bills. Personally I think it's animal abuse to breed dogs that have all these physical problems but that's another topic.

Here's a bulldog from 100 years ago.

[Image: 6400903_f496.jpg]

And today.

[Image: 31F642E500000578-3480780-Today_Bulldog_c...059812.jpg]

Here's how much we've changed their skull in just the last 50 years.

[Image: british-bulldog-skull.jpg]

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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08-04-2017, 12:59 PM
RE: What Intelligent Design might tell us about a god.
And in honour if the banana man...

"God's" banana:

[Image: banana.png]


"Humanity's" banana:

[Image: Banana.jpg?w=630&h=456&z...p;amp;q=89]

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"If we're going to be damned, let's be damned for what we really are." - Captain Picard
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08-04-2017, 01:12 PM
RE: What Intelligent Design might tell us about a god.
(08-04-2017 12:42 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Here's how much we've changed their skull in just the last 50 years.

[Image: british-bulldog-skull.jpg]

I'm just going to say that, as a casual observer from the sidelines, that amount of skull degradation looks inhumane. Shocking

[Image: E3WvRwZ.gif]
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