What Is Preventing
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25-08-2017, 06:44 PM (This post was last modified: 25-08-2017 06:49 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: What Is Preventing
(25-08-2017 05:44 PM)Jeanne Wrote:  Identity Politics got into full swing with Woodrow Wilson. Lyndon Johnson set the game up well with the Great Society agenda.

But...recently? That would be Barrack Obama, who set race relations back decades.

Yes, that's got it right there. Thumbsup My question, and the citizens of the USA must ask themselves, is why? The most obvious reason to me is that the racist elements in the country were willing to allow accommodation and recognition of the darkies as equals up until the rest of us made a darkie 'massa and put him in charge of things. That was just too much for them. .... That's my read at least. You'll have your own read. We all read differently.

#sigh
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25-08-2017, 06:49 PM
RE: What Is Preventing
With all due respect Jeanne, and I actually mean that and I'm not merely using it as a disclaimer to say something nasty, I think it's a bit disingenuous to throw out the statements you did, then act like you're being attacked when you are asked to clarify. You're doing a ton of deflecting and projecting; not to mention the cliched tactic of "But but but OBAMA"....I didn't even say one word of praise about Obama or even bring him up. You most certainly are guilty of the all the things you're accusing others of doing.
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25-08-2017, 07:25 PM
RE: What Is Preventing
(25-08-2017 06:44 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(25-08-2017 05:44 PM)Jeanne Wrote:  But...recently? That would be Barrack Obama, who set race relations back decades.

Yes, that's got it right there. Thumbsup My question, and the citizens of the USA must ask themselves, is why? The most obvious reason to me is that the racist elements in the country were willing to allow accommodation and recognition of the darkies as equals up until the rest of us made a darkie 'massa and put him in charge of things. That was just too much for them. .... That's my read at least. You'll have your own read. We all read differently.

A middle ground between those two extremes, perhaps? BO is just one dude, even as president, he's not going to change hearts overnight all by himself; ignorant whites raised racist aren't going to have a conversion, non-racist whites also aren't going to flip. For me, the subtle thing is, did BO move relations forward or back (not "decades" or whatever, just at all). I would say backwards, how much, who knows.
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25-08-2017, 07:31 PM
RE: What Is Preventing
(25-08-2017 07:25 PM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  
(25-08-2017 06:44 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Yes, that's got it right there. Thumbsup My question, and the citizens of the USA must ask themselves, is why? The most obvious reason to me is that the racist elements in the country were willing to allow accommodation and recognition of the darkies as equals up until the rest of us made a darkie 'massa and put him in charge of things. That was just too much for them. .... That's my read at least. You'll have your own read. We all read differently.

A middle ground between those two extremes, perhaps? BO is just one dude, even as president, he's not going to change hearts overnight all by himself; ignorant whites raised racist aren't going to have a conversion, non-racist whites also aren't going to flip. For me, the subtle thing is, did BO move relations forward or back (not "decades" or whatever, just at all). I would say backwards, how much, who knows.

You think what we're seeing is subtle, Jerry? ....

#sigh
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25-08-2017, 07:50 PM
RE: What Is Preventing
(25-08-2017 07:31 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(25-08-2017 07:25 PM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  A middle ground between those two extremes, perhaps? BO is just one dude, even as president, he's not going to change hearts overnight all by himself; ignorant whites raised racist aren't going to have a conversion, non-racist whites also aren't going to flip. For me, the subtle thing is, did BO move relations forward or back (not "decades" or whatever, just at all). I would say backwards, how much, who knows.

You think what we're seeing is subtle, Jerry? ....

I don't know who "we" is but I understood your position to be that there was a lot of anger because Obama, a black man, became president; I don't find that to be a subtle position. But you did say "racist elements" and I agree that's part of the reason, they probably simmered and seethed for eight years but I don't think that's the full story.
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25-08-2017, 08:55 PM
RE: What Is Preventing
(25-08-2017 05:36 PM)Jeanne Wrote:  ...
I believe I can offer my opinion in response to the OP and not have to defend them
...

Indeed so. Yet, as others have clarified, a defense was not asked for ... merely some detail.

Trump has changed his position on almost everything and/or attempts to hold conflicting positions simultaneously so saying yay! to Trump says nothing at all.

It's quite possible that many here agree with whatever it is you like about something that he has said.

I guess we'll never know.

Sadcryface

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26-08-2017, 01:51 AM
RE: What Is Preventing
(25-08-2017 05:44 PM)Jeanne Wrote:  
(24-08-2017 10:44 PM)morondog Wrote:  Gee I wonder who keeps stoking such tensions...

Identity Politics got into full swing with Woodrow Wilson. Lyndon Johnson set the game up well with the Great Society agenda.

But...recently? That would be Barrack Obama, who set race relations back decades. When he was first introduced to the nation, I had such hopes for his future as our president, but they were quickly dashed the more I learned about him and it was painful to watch what went down over his two terms.

Who stokes the tensions? Those who have to gain from America's demise. Left. Right. Communists. Fascists. Anarchists throughout the spectrum.

If you're gonna name names, you can't deny that Trump has deliberately used those tensions for his own ends. He's certainly done nothing to calm the situation, and much to exacerbate it.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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26-08-2017, 04:35 AM
RE: What Is Preventing
(25-08-2017 05:36 PM)Jeanne Wrote:  Consider if you would how much you would tire of forever having to defend your reasons for voting for Clinton or supporting Obama and his agenda were you posting on a very Conservative website. Is it not enough just to admit to having a different opinion for your own reasoning?

Yabut, you didn't just say you supported Trump and leave it at that. You're making provocative statements, like "Obama set race relations back decades".

That would be like me going on a very Conservative website and saying something like "Ronald Reagan was an asshole who permanently ruined our economy" -- and then refusing to elaborate on that. Why stir up a hornet's nest in that fashion unless you just want to offend people and cause trouble?

Also, you mentioned something about liking all the wonderful things Trump has said and done. I find this immensely puzzling, because he hasn't done much of anything as far as I can see. OK, he nominated a Conservative Supreme Court justice and filled his cabinet with people who seem bent on destroying the very agencies that they've been made head of. Maybe some Conservatives see those as positive accomplishments. But that was all within the first week or two. Since then he's "done" a whole bunch of nothing, and most of his campaign promises are twisting slowly in the wind. It's like Rip van Winkle bragging about all the things he "did" while he was sleeping. Maybe you see playing a lot of golf (at taxpayer expense) as a great accomplishment? And before you say "Obama played a lot of golf, too" -- not nearly as much as Trump. Not even close.
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26-08-2017, 07:32 AM
RE: What Is Preventing
Regarding the original question: you can't just impeach someone because he's an asshole. Trump is a legally elected President. Not liking him is not a reason to throw him out, nor should it be. Whomever said the point at which we operate like that is the point at which we become a 3rd world nation is exactly right. If there is evidence he committed an actual crime, then things change. But, until that happens, he should absolutely continue in office.

As for Jeanne's comment that his base remains strong: I don't think so. His numbers are historically bad and there are a great deal of people with buyer's remorse. There continue to be true believers, obviously, but large numbers of people are not happy with him and the circus he has brought to town. And, that is a situation that exists with the stock market at historic highs, low unemployment and low gas prices. If those things start to slip, I think his historic low polling numbers are going to get historically lower. You think Republicans are distancing themselves from him now, wait and see what happens if Hurricane Harvey does to gas and oil prices, and the economy in general, what Katrina did. Prior to Katrina gas was barely over $2/gallon. Immediately afterward it skyrocketed to close to $5/gallon in many parts of the country, and wasn't below $4 anywhere. And, the economy followed, and the presidency of George Bush came crashing down around his ears. It happened not in months or weeks, but really in hours.

The future is notoriously hard to predict, and I am horrible at it, but historical precedence says that presidents do not survive economic downturns. And, we could be due for one. There are already some indicators we could be heading into another recession. Economies cycle and recessions inevitably come. If that happens, a president with a best case 40% approval rating is going to have serious problems with his agenda and his party will likely suffer during the midterms. Maybe not. Just because something happened in the past doesn't mean it will happen in the future, but my guess is if the economy slips Trump is in serious trouble with his base.

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26-08-2017, 05:50 PM
RE: What Is Preventing
(25-08-2017 05:36 PM)Jeanne Wrote:  
Quote:The only one "playing a game" is you; you are the one who said those things and then apparently don't want to answer the question.

I mean seems like a pretty simple request, but you danced around it like a politician.

I may have danced around the requests, but it is because I do not want to get dragged into a lengthy debate about my opinions on Trump or my political leanings of Conservative Libertarianism. Too often I spend my time answering questions posed to me and rarely have the same done for my questions, whether it is from fellow atheists or from Christians.

I appreciate that Dom thinks well of me, but I am leery of entering into political debate here and for good reason I think you would agree. I believe I can offer my opinion in response to the OP and not have to defend them other than to state that many people in the US agree with me.

Consider if you would how much you would tire of forever having to defend your reasons for voting for Clinton or supporting Obama and his agenda were you posting on a very Conservative website. Is it not enough just to admit to having a different opinion for your own reasoning?

I don't have much time to spend online and while it could make for interesting and stimulating conversation, I just would rather not remain that stimulated on a continuous basis.

Yeah, defending that cunt is a full-time job. I can't say I blame you for your reticence.

Just remember that this is a forum where questions are asked. If you're unwilling or unable to answer them even after you've posted your views, that is taken into account at least on my side of the monitor.

I don't really entertain offered opinions when the speaker is unwilling to justify them, especially when those opinions are offered in a forum where discussion is the currency at hand. If you are unwilling to discuss your opinions, you probably shouldn't offer them up -- or you should at least understand that your unwillingness to discuss them reflects poorly on both them and you.
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