What Is "Proof"? (Nihilists Welcome)
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23-07-2013, 03:14 AM
What Is "Proof"? (Nihilists Welcome)
The majority of Atheists, in the context of religious debate, require proof of something for belief. That is an over-simplification of course, and people misuse the word "proof" perhaps to mean sufficient or reasonable data, but those are all very relative terms. What is sufficient data to one person isn't nearly enough for another.

That leads to the question, what is "proof"? What qualifications must an idea meet before it is "proven"? There are a few nihilists wandering about the forums, most notably, Girly. Nihilists would say that no thing can ever really be proven.

I, myself, am not a true nihilist, because following Descartes initial questioning in his attempt to logically "prove" God's existence in that I believe there is proof that I exist by my own pondering. If we go down the road of metaphysics it could be argued that I may not exist. Indeed I could exist as part of God's dream, or some other metaphysical possibility. Even if I believed that was a real possibility, I would still have to concede that there is proof that "something exists", which is where nihilists lose my completely, as I do not understand how someone (pending there existence) can logically come to a conclusion that "something" (as a concept) isn't proven to exist. Do you have to throw out logic to come to that conclusion? If so, how did you reach your conclusion? Surely you used logic to reach your conclusion that you must throw out logic. If you used logic to come to the conclusion that logic must be thrown out the window then you've defeated your own pondering.

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23-07-2013, 03:16 AM
RE: What Is "Proof"? (Nihilists Welcome)
It's a word of the English language. You want proof ? i'll give you proof. Here:

PROOF

You can keep it, I got lots more.

Tongue
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23-07-2013, 03:24 AM
RE: What Is "Proof"? (Nihilists Welcome)
When most of us mean evidence,we say proof. Big difference.
Proof aplies in mathematics.
Evidence applies everywhere

*i think*

KC IS A LIAR!!!! HE PROMISED ME VANILLA CAKES AND GAVE ME STRAWBERRY CAKE Weeping
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23-07-2013, 03:30 AM
RE: What Is "Proof"? (Nihilists Welcome)
proof is a way to reject what others want for own wills

literally, p roof, is per the roof, so the truth that none can show

which is why proofs are created for powers and force life

prove that u can do it, prove that it is urs ....

so meaning the wrong end in taking advantage from lonely start
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23-07-2013, 03:44 AM (This post was last modified: 23-07-2013 03:48 AM by Dark Light.)
RE: What Is "Proof"? (Nihilists Welcome)
(23-07-2013 03:24 AM)Lightvader Wrote:  When most of us mean evidence,we say proof. Big difference.
Proof aplies in mathematics.
Evidence applies everywhere

*i think*

As for mathematical (as well as logical) "proofs" I would say that those "proofs" are meaningless. Please stay with me. The "proofs" here aren't real. It is just a system which is given artificial definitions, that is to say no real truths. It is just a matter of tautology. Nothing 'real' is taken from a mathematical calculation, or a logical conclusion (e.g. all s is m, ergo s = m). Perhaps someone here can articulate this better.

There is evidence that the Christian God exists. The Christian bible itself is evidence of the Christian God. Whether or not that is sufficient evidence for belief in the Christian God or not is another matter entirely. Most people would not say upon close inspection that there is no evidence for the Christian God, but most people here (and I would hope elsewhere) would say that there is no proof of the Christian God.

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23-07-2013, 03:49 AM
RE: What Is "Proof"? (Nihilists Welcome)
I might say that evidence is the following thing:
an object or objects wich have been observed and tested in an empirical and unbiased way to support a claim

KC IS A LIAR!!!! HE PROMISED ME VANILLA CAKES AND GAVE ME STRAWBERRY CAKE Weeping
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23-07-2013, 03:52 AM
RE: What Is "Proof"? (Nihilists Welcome)
(23-07-2013 03:49 AM)Lightvader Wrote:  I might say that evidence is the following thing:
an object or objects wich have been observed and tested in an empirical and unbiased way to support a claim

Evidence, or proof? Blink

Also, "unbiased" doesn't really exist with human involvement.

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23-07-2013, 04:00 AM
RE: What Is "Proof"? (Nihilists Welcome)
(23-07-2013 03:52 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(23-07-2013 03:49 AM)Lightvader Wrote:  I might say that evidence is the following thing:
an object or objects wich have been observed and tested in an empirical and unbiased way to support a claim

Evidence, or proof? Blink

Also, "unbiased" doesn't really exist with human involvement.

evidence

and unbiased exists. Science is a nice example of unbiased testing (and please dont ruin my ideology lol)

im trying to stay with you man,but if there is one thing i am bad at,then it must be philosophy(and getting laid)

KC IS A LIAR!!!! HE PROMISED ME VANILLA CAKES AND GAVE ME STRAWBERRY CAKE Weeping
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23-07-2013, 04:06 AM
RE: What Is "Proof"? (Nihilists Welcome)
(23-07-2013 03:44 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(23-07-2013 03:24 AM)Lightvader Wrote:  When most of us mean evidence,we say proof. Big difference.
Proof aplies in mathematics.
Evidence applies everywhere

*i think*

As for mathematical (as well as logical) "proofs" I would say that those "proofs" are meaningless. Please stay with me. The "proofs" here aren't real. It is just a system which is given artificial definitions, that is to say no real truths. It is just a matter of tautology. Nothing 'real' is taken from a mathematical calculation, or a logical conclusion (e.g. all s is m, ergo s = m).
i see your point with the mathematical proof,but you can prove a point with logical conclusions.


Quote:Perhaps someone here can articulate this better.

There is evidence that the Christian God exists. The Christian bible itself is evidence of the Christian God. Whether or not that is sufficient evidence for belief in the Christian God or not is another matter entirely. Most people would not say upon close inspection that there is no evidence for the Christian God, but most people here (and I would hope elsewhere) would say that there is no proof of the Christian God.
regardless of how many of us say that there is no proof of a god, they still use it wrong.
If something is used right or wrong, is not based on a popularity contest.
But i am ok with using it wrong(i know,im a hypocrite)

KC IS A LIAR!!!! HE PROMISED ME VANILLA CAKES AND GAVE ME STRAWBERRY CAKE Weeping
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23-07-2013, 04:10 AM
RE: What Is "Proof"? (Nihilists Welcome)
(23-07-2013 04:00 AM)Lightvader Wrote:  
(23-07-2013 03:52 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  Evidence, or proof? Blink

Also, "unbiased" doesn't really exist with human involvement.

evidence

and unbiased exists. Science is a nice example of unbiased testing (and please dont ruin my ideology lol)

im trying to stay with you man,but if there is one thing i am bad at,then it must be philosophy(and getting laid)

If that is your definition of "evidence", what is your definition of "proof"?

For most of the English speaking world...my shoes being wet is evidence that I walked in wet grass with my shoes on. I could have just as easily run my shoes under the faucet in my kitchen sink, but it is evidence of the former nonetheless. It could also be looked at from the other angle and one could say that my wet shoes is evidence for the latter, but in reality my wet shoes are evidence of either, or both.

Take a course on sociology. Humans, the lot of us, are biased. There is no way to know with certainty (which is what this thread is all about, so fuck all) that testing parameters, data collection, and so on haven't been a victim of biases, whether conscientiously or unconsciously.

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