What Is Truth?
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23-12-2013, 05:04 AM
RE: What Is Truth?
(21-12-2013 10:27 PM)DLJ Wrote:  A majority of Greeks?

As Shakespeare put it: "It's all Greek to me"

I don't seek truth. I seek the Atheist Experience.

... which is all Greek to you, I guess.

Socratic method (also known as method of elenchus, elenctic method, or Socratic debate), named after the classical Greek philosopher Socrates, is a form of inquiry and discussion between individuals, based on asking and answering questions to stimulate critical thinking and to illuminate ideas. It is a dialectical method, often involving a discussion in which the defense of one point of view is questioned; one participant may lead another to contradict himself in some way, thus strengthening the inquirer's own point.

The Socratic method is a positive method of hypothesis elimination, in that better hypotheses are found by steadily identifying and eliminating those that lead to contradictions. The Socratic method searches for general, commonly held truths that shape opinion, and scrutinizes them to determine their consistency with other beliefs. The basic form is a series of questions formulated as tests of logic and fact intended to help a person or group discover their beliefs about some topic, exploring the definitions or logoi (singular logos), seeking to characterize the general characteristics shared by various particular instances. The extent to which this method is employed to bring out definitions implicit in the interlocutors' beliefs, or to help them further their understanding, is called the method of maieutics. Aristotle attributed to Socrates the discovery of the method of definition and induction, which he regarded as the essence of the scientific method.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socratic_method

it's a good base for conversation... very Western Civilizationy Smile

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23-12-2013, 05:42 AM
RE: What Is Truth?
(21-12-2013 12:45 PM)λάθε βιώσας Wrote:  I seek Truth...

truth can be ascertained via a majority, the Greek already posed this question.

No, truth is not attained by majority. It is attained by evidence.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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24-12-2013, 02:54 PM (This post was last modified: 24-12-2013 03:34 PM by λάθε βιώσας.)
RE: What Is Truth?
(23-12-2013 05:42 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(21-12-2013 12:45 PM)λάθε βιώσας Wrote:  I seek Truth...

truth can be ascertained via a majority, the Greek already posed this question.

No, truth is not attained by majority. It is attained by evidence.

great! on to philosophy... this is what I love.

but evidence ascertained has to be agreed upon.

the Greek did tackle this one, in the simple question of (is the sky blue?)

this was before we had scientific evidence of fact of why it does appear blue to a majority (if not all people, except those who may be color blind or just blind)

A majority must agree on perceived fact even before their is scientific evidence thereof.

This goes even deeper dating before the Greek in how we all agreed upon that the color blue is what we all call "blue"

I'll dig some articles out... but even paintings from antiquity reflect the sky as "blue" even before we had hard evidence or knew why it was.

~~~
still seems to be on the list of unsolved mysteries ???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_uns...philosophy

what we call blue, some people call green - but what is the majority?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distinguish...n_language

~~~
Now if you went somewhere remote, say one of these places where they call the sky green and they paint the sky green in their art...

where does that leave us when we try to tell them we have scientific evidence that it is blue? ...from spectral analysis

only a majority agrees that blue is blue even with the scientific evidence, which in all reality in this particular example is perceived fact agreed upon by a majority.

majorities determine fact (truth) and perception of reality...

~~~

Quote:No, truth is not attained by majority. It is attained by evidence.

what are we going to do with evidence if a majority doesn't agree that an object you are holding in your hand is blue?

"you have 4 people, one comes along with a rock, two people agree that is is the color of the sky (blue), the person holding the rock now has evidence regardless if there is scientific proof yet"

what do we do with the one who is sure of themself that it is not the color of the sky? ...and starts to get angry at the other 3

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24-12-2013, 03:43 PM (This post was last modified: 24-12-2013 03:55 PM by λάθε βιώσας.)
RE: What Is Truth?
you have to believe, or have faith, if even blind faith... (regardless of disposition or religion)

that what the majority says is true or agrees upon... is fact


--therefore I believe in reality, regardless of percentages or disposition, the majority of the planet is Theistic.

I believe in Atheism too, there is evidence of it...

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24-12-2013, 03:53 PM
RE: What Is Truth?
(24-12-2013 02:54 PM)λάθε βιώσας Wrote:  but evidence ascertained has to be agreed upon.
Why?
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24-12-2013, 04:04 PM
RE: What Is Truth?
Objective reality is the closest thing to truth *we* will ever know. There may be patterns and energies that we will never observe because we can't comprehend them from within our limited physical human existence.

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24-12-2013, 04:53 PM
RE: What Is Truth?
Hmmm, that guy sounds an awful lot like I&I......
Consider

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24-12-2013, 04:55 PM
RE: What Is Truth?
(24-12-2013 04:04 PM)Cephalotus Wrote:  Objective reality is the closest thing to truth *we* will ever know. There may be patterns and energies that we will never observe because we can't comprehend them from within our limited physical human existence.

alot of people say truth is subjective... but I am leaning to a majority "objective" truth.

in most cultures there is objective moral truths, which cross cultures and understanding (their language)

I can't think of a place globally where say killing another human animal is moral.

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24-12-2013, 04:57 PM
RE: What Is Truth?
(24-12-2013 04:53 PM)LostLocke Wrote:  Hmmm, that guy sounds an awful lot like I&I......
Consider

is that another poster or registered and banned user?

I assure you... I have never been here before.

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24-12-2013, 05:17 PM
RE: What Is Truth?
(23-12-2013 05:04 AM)λάθε βιώσας Wrote:  
(21-12-2013 10:27 PM)DLJ Wrote:  A majority of Greeks?

As Shakespeare put it: "It's all Greek to me"

I don't seek truth. I seek the Atheist Experience.

... which is all Greek to you, I guess.

Socratic method (also known as method of elenchus, elenctic method, or Socratic debate), named after the classical Greek philosopher Socrates, is a form of inquiry and discussion between individuals, based on asking and answering questions to stimulate critical thinking and to illuminate ideas. It is a dialectical method, often involving a discussion in which the defense of one point of view is questioned; one participant may lead another to contradict himself in some way, thus strengthening the inquirer's own point.

The Socratic method is a positive method of hypothesis elimination, in that better hypotheses are found by steadily identifying and eliminating those that lead to contradictions. The Socratic method searches for general, commonly held truths that shape opinion, and scrutinizes them to determine their consistency with other beliefs. The basic form is a series of questions formulated as tests of logic and fact intended to help a person or group discover their beliefs about some topic, exploring the definitions or logoi (singular logos), seeking to characterize the general characteristics shared by various particular instances. The extent to which this method is employed to bring out definitions implicit in the interlocutors' beliefs, or to help them further their understanding, is called the method of maieutics. Aristotle attributed to Socrates the discovery of the method of definition and induction, which he .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socratic_method

it's a good base for conversation... very Western Civilizationy Smile

Quote:regarded as the essence of the scientific method

BULLSHIT AND NO SHOULD NOT BE. "ESSENCE" and that is what Plato poisoned humanity with right there.

What Socratic Method lacks that modern science does not was the concept of quality control in testing and falsification. It was good for brainstorming but was more about winning an argument and has absolutely NOTHING to do with our modern method.

The idea of back and forth was NOT enough. The idea of questioning was good but that lone still lacked quality control.

Read the preface to Dawkins "The Greatest Show On Earth". He places blame on Plato for all our modern ideologies in politics and religion. Plato was my hero for a long time until I read that.

Questioning was a good start, yes. But they did not invent scientific method and much of their "philosophy" was flawed.

Giving kudos to Plato for what little good he did would be like believing that Jesus was real because Newton got physics right while ignoring his Alchemy. Plato did far more damage to human logic than he did by stumbling on the right attitude of give and take questioning.

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